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Old 06-09-2013
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Windward Performance

Question regarding windward performance - I have a Catalina 22 with wing keel design. Up until recently, most of my sailing has been on the inland lakes of Wisconsin where we'd just sail back and forth across the lake. We are now on Lake Michigan and with a little more open space and I'm starting to look at the performance of my boat. I have a main and a CDI roller furling 150% genoa, both are original to the boat (1988). I am more inclined to think that my lack of performance is due to the skipper more so than the sails, but they are a bit tired.

In any event, what typically happens is that the main sail points to windward far better than the genoa. By the time the main would luff, the genoa would be going crazy. When I fall off to the point where the genoa ceases luffing, I am almost 70 degrees off the wind. It is nearly impossible to get anywhere when you can only make 20 degrees to windward.

I have my rig tuned to 12% of shroud breaking strength with a slight bit of mast rake. The forestay/furler sag is difficult to measure, but doesn't seem to be sagging excessively. I have set the genoa tracks to the mid point, but always thought adjustments there were more for the wind strength than performance.

Attached is a GPS track of the best performance I could get yesterday in about 10 knot winds. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

CS
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Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Windward Performance

Any idea how far off the spreaders the genoa is when fully trimmed? (the less the better, but not touching). That's probably the best way to tell how blown out your headsail is. If you're something like an entire foot off the upper spreader (maybe you only have one pair of spreaders), that's your problem. It should be within a couple inches. Unfortunately, the only way to fix that is with a new sail.

Last edited by Irunbird; 06-09-2013 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Windward Performance

The genoa will always luff before the main.

With 25 year old sails, it's a virtual certainty that they need replacement. They may look ok, but check the mainsail max draft - it should be about 50% aft and not much more than about 15% of the foot length. A genoa draft should be about 40% aft.

New sails will show a remarkable performance improvement.
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Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Windward Performance

Check your genoa lead positions... they should be set up initially as illustrated below.. if they are too far forward you'll never get a decent angle of attack on the sail... The extension of the sheet angle should bisect the luff of the sail.



Also, the sails need to 'work together' so to say one points better than the other doesn't matter. If you straighten out your genoa issues, you'll probably find that as the wind builds the genoa will backwind a bubble in the luff of the main.. Then you need to think about reefing to keep both sails working together properly, although a slight bubble in the main luff isn't necessarily slow as long as you're still flying the back 2/3 of the sail.
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Last edited by Faster; 06-09-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Windward Performance

I agree with Faster. With a 150 Genoa, your leads will surely be nearly all the way aft, not mid point on the track. And, are you cranking really hard on the winches? Once the sail fills, it takes a lot of force to get it set properly.
You didn't mention helm balance. How does the tiller feel when you are pointing as high as possible?
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Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Windward Performance

To go a little further on the genoa lead thread, look at your genoa tell tales (you have them, right?). All three sets should be streaming aft without any breaks. There are variations to this rule, but the genoa lead is set correctly when the top, middle, and lower tell tales are streaming.

Sample of how to trim the foresail from "Illustrated Sail & Rig Tuning"
How to trim the jib: "Illustrated Sail & Rig Tuning"
Headsail twist: Using telltales: "Illustrated Sail & Rig Tuning"
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Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Windward Performance

To help with fasters point, I have taken my jib/genoa's and literally drawn a line with a black sharpie at this point, so it is easier to see if the carr is in the correct position for how are out or in the head sail is.

I would swag as others, something is not right with the carr position. Along with I usually have the rig set to 15%. If you have a loos guage, set the rig one day to 12, then to 15, then to say 18, and see if you can tell any difference in how the boat sails etc. Then set to where it is best per say. It may turn out 12 is best.

Also as noted, new sails will help too! BUT, C30's with the track way out side of the rail, will have some issues pointing as well as say a fractional rig, or one with shrouds that are more inward. Shoal draft rigs do not point as well as deeper draft rigs......generally speaking! mind you!

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Re: Windward Performance

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I will try all and see what I can come up with. The helm feels ok...although I have to admit that I let the ST1000 handle the steering 95% of the time. No telltales on my sails either - while this would be a relatively inexpensive addition, I'm hesitant to put any money into 25 year old sails. Will try Irunbird and Sabreman's checks to see
where my current genoa stands before making a decision on whether or not to replace.

Does anyone know about how close to the wind a boat of my type should be able to attain? I always thought the wing keel was designed specifically to help with upwind performance??

Thanks again, will respond back if I find anything enlightening.

Last edited by cas8100; 06-09-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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Re: Windward Performance

For less than $10 you could probably stick on some tell tails yourself. There is a std where to attach them to the front part of the jib. Most Chandlers have them, or can order them in. Usually attached with tape that is included. That would be a simple thing to do in the mean time.

You "should" be able to sail to within 40-45 degrees of true wind. Possibly as low as 50 depending upon many items. 40-50 should be attainable. At least it is and I have seen it with some other C30's in the YC I belong to when racing.

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Re: Windward Performance

Hey, Cas- almost anything light that you can tape to the proper position on both leeward and windward sides of the sail will work for telltales- yarn, string, cassette tape- dark and long enough to be easily seen from both sides of the sail (if possible) and won't cost much. The lead position is also critical. When I owned a Buccaneer 18 (1980 model), the boat came with track positions that were outside the shrouds and I had noticed the new Nickel's Buccaneers all had jib tracks moved more inboard and mounted on the cockpit seats, so I moved mine and was able to sail and be as competitive as the newer boats in terms of pointing. All I needed to do at the time was learn to sail! You may not be able to easily move your genoa tracks, but you can do things to move the position of that lead (using a barber-hauler, for example) to get it more inboard, and if it's fully unfurled, then it probably needs to be as far aft as possible to pull the top of the sail in and get proper air flow over the entire sail. There are zillions of tutorials out there to describe it, but tell-tales are critical to letting you know how the air is attaching along the luff of your genoa. Without them, you'll really be guessing. If nothing else, I'd experiment with duct tape and cassette tape (if you still have some)...

Ray
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