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post #31 of 45 Old 02-21-2008
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this coming from the man looking to become a tornado magnet...
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On the other hand...they do make very good kites in hurricanes!

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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post #32 of 45 Old 03-31-2008
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In my opinion the most important feature of a ship sailing in the ocean is weight. Not because weight in itself is important, but because weight is important considering payload. To do the most popular trip among Europeans, particularly sun-hungry Scandinavians like my self, the trip from The Canary Islands to the Caribbeans take 3 - 4 weeks. That means a lot of fresh water, food, diesel, tools and materials to do some repairs, etc. The ship must take this payload without significally changing the wet area.

A frigidaire may be important on such a long trip. That means facilities for producing electricity, like windmill, generator etc. Sleep is very important, that means the ship must be comfortable enough to secure sleep.

My personal choice is a 37 feet rebuilt fishing-ship, with a 16 metric tons displacement, built for fishing in the North Sea/North Atlantic. The rig is a gaffrig with a jibtopsail, jib, foresail and topsails above the gaffs. In all 7 sails. With the sailarea distributed among 7 sails, the rig itself is quite low and and the center of gravity accordingly low.

Granted this rig is not the best for fast sailing, particularly by the wind, but in my opinion, the best for traveling. I have not been able to make the ship heel more than 5°, in 30 kts wind, rather it drifts sideways. The ship needs around 25 kts wind to reach hullspeed. If the wind gets stronger than 25 kts, than I reduce sailarea accordingly, usually starting with the topsails, then the jibtopsail, then jib, then mizzen.

Use your head, ram the wall till it falls.
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post #33 of 45 Old 03-31-2008
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Love to see some pictures of your fine boat...

And maybe a few of the old country...

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In my opinion the most important feature of a ship sailing in the ocean is weight. Not because weight in itself is important, but because weight is important considering payload. To do the most popular trip among Europeans, particularly sun-hungry Scandinavians like my self, the trip from The Canary Islands to the Caribbeans take 3 - 4 weeks. That means a lot of fresh water, food, diesel, tools and materials to do some repairs, etc. The ship must take this payload without significally changing the wet area.

A frigidaire may be important on such a long trip. That means facilities for producing electricity, like windmill, generator etc. Sleep is very important, that means the ship must be comfortable enough to secure sleep.

My personal choice is a 37 feet rebuilt fishing-ship, with a 16 metric tons displacement, built for fishing in the North Sea/North Atlantic. The rig is a gaffrig with a jibtopsail, jib, foresail and topsails above the gaffs. In all 7 sails. With the sailarea distributed among 7 sails, the rig itself is quite low and and the center of gravity accordingly low.

Granted this rig is not the best for fast sailing, particularly by the wind, but in my opinion, the best for traveling. I have not been able to make the ship heel more than 5°, in 30 kts wind, rather it drifts sideways. The ship needs around 25 kts wind to reach hullspeed. If the wind gets stronger than 25 kts, than I reduce sailarea accordingly, usually starting with the topsails, then the jibtopsail, then jib, then mizzen.
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post #34 of 45 Old 04-15-2008
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This is what I look for in SailNet!
Thanks, everyone!
I agree with the seamanship requirement... When everything is considered, in the end it is the capt'n that drives the boat and caries the ultimate responsibility for survival and safety...
Sail on!
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post #35 of 45 Old 04-15-2008
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With all due repect to TJalfur, I think that it is a huge mistake to say that "the most important feature of a ship sailing in the ocean is weight." In and of itself, weight does nothing good for a boat; In and of itself weight does not add strength, it does not add seaworthiness, it does not add carrying capacity, it does not add seaworthiness, it just adds higher stresses and makes a boat harder to handle.

While it is important to have adequate displacement to be able to carry the gear, consumables, and spares to make passages,and to have adequate structural strength and adequate ballasting to stand up to its rig, any weight beyond that is detrimental to the boats prime mission which from my perspective is to sail efficiently.

Traditionally the rule of thumb has been cited as roughly 2 1/2 to 5 long tons of displacement per person. These days that number has crept up as we have become increasing dependent on more sophisticated equipment to operate our boats. Ideally, from a motion comfort, seaworthiness and motion comfort standpoint, that weight should be spread over as long a waterline length as is practical and still achieve adequate structural and ballasting capacities.

Then it comes down to hull shape.

Jeff
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post #36 of 45 Old 04-15-2008
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Love to see some pictures of your fine boat...

And maybe a few of the old country...
I think can see them both in this pic

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Sin City, Liquor all day, Poker all night...Channel Islands & Diego, So Cal
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post #37 of 45 Old 04-15-2008
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With all due respect to Jeff, weight does have it's advantages. While I would not classify it as the most important factor, the heavier displacement boat per length will in general be more sea-kindly. And slower. (g)

“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.”
Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
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post #38 of 45 Old 04-16-2008
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And be as wet as a half tide rock as Ted Brewer once said

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar IV, iii, 217
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post #39 of 45 Old 04-16-2008
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Obviously I am writing slower than I think. My point is only that on long trips like crossing the Atlantic Ocean, one need (or at least I need) to bring along food, water, diesel, spareparts, tools etc. If the boat is lightweighted, the freeboard will diminish and the wet area will become larger when the payload is big enough. This is by the way the reason why fishing ships seldom have any accidents towards the fishing place, but more often on the way home, because of to much payload.

A heavier boat can carry more weight without changing its stability.

I do not mean that a heavier boat is advantageous in any circumstance.

Use your head, ram the wall till it falls.
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post #40 of 45 Old 04-16-2008
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I think these discussions often go around in circles because of the way that we come to define them. Perhaps this will clarify my point. It takes a certain amount of displacement to support the boat and crew. If we have two boats of equal dry load (meaning empty tanks, and lockers etc) displacement, generally the boat with the longer waterline will carry a larger percentage of its weight in full load capacity. Obviously there is a limit to how long an equal weight boat becomes before the boat ceases to be structurally suitable, but withing a reasonable range the longer boat of equal length will offer a gentler motion, a more easily driven hull and so a smaller sail plan making it easier to handle, and will perform better as well.

And By the same token the cost to build and the cost to maintain is larger proportionate to displacement rather than length.

So while we may rightly say that if we compare two boats of equal length, similar hull forms, rigs, and weight distributions and ballast ratios, the heavier one would be more comfortable (up to a point), when we talk about going distance cruising, I think we need to define the displacement that we need to carry of stuff, and then look for the longest boat that can safely do that (which means a lower L/D).

Jeff
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