Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

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  #11  
Old 07-15-2014
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Caveat - I'm a spinnaker whore. I love them. Thirty years racing foredeck has scarred me for life. I darn near bought a ketch specifically because I could have TWO spinnakers. *grin*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
Asymmetric spinnakers work best on boats that are rigged to fly them with a bowsprit. Look at any modern J/boat (like a J/70) for an example of how that works.

Asymmetric spinnakers that are made for cruising boats also work, but they work best over a fairly narrow wind angle and can't be flown as deeply as you can fly a symmetrical spinnaker. The advantage is that they have much simpler rigging since you don't need the pole.
I agree that asymms work best with a sprit, even a small one.

With good control on a tack line the useful wind angle is pretty broad. Tighten up the luff and you can get quite high. Ease it and you can get good rotation to windward as you head well down. This is why the tack retainers like the ATN Tacker are a bad idea.

Good news - you can fly an asymm on a pole and go pretty deep. You'll likely still get better VMG gybing downwind on broad reaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Assymmetrical "spinnakers" are really lightweight unstayed big (really big) jibs. Being tacked down on the boat's centerline, they get partially or completely blanketed by the main when you run, or even deep broad reach.
True enough. Flying my cruising chute off our sprit I reef the main as I get deeper and may even drop the main completely. After all the chute is way bigger than the main. Downwind performance is about projected area. Mostly we pole the tack out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
I also find a sock on the spinnaker to be very useful for cruising.
Helpful but not necessary. The darn thing is heavy and storage space required goes up. *sigh* In the end I think they are worth the pain but they are not a panacea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
Is it crazy of me to even think of using a spinnaker?
It is not crazy of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
And how about using it without the pole?
Don't do that until you don't need to ask the question. You're balancing on a razor blade. You'll get practice gybing a symmetric spinnaker either dip-pole or end-for-end. The minute or so you spend with no pole each time will build the skills you need to try this for longer periods.

It certainly isn't something to try single-handed, or even short-handed with inexperienced sailors.
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  #12  
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

I think I will give it a try. I guess I need figure out how much line I'll need to rig it all.

How about this idea: On a light wind day anchor off the stern so the boat is pointing downwind, and practice putting the spinnaker up and down while anchored. Would that work?
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
How about this idea: On a light wind day anchor off the stern so the boat is pointing downwind, and practice putting the spinnaker up and down while anchored. Would that work?
Sure.
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

I am always amazed at how knowledgeable and generous so many of you are with that knowledge. Thank you so much!! I want to see a J70 with a spinnaker now!!!
Nancy
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Old 07-15-2014
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Nancy: another option, if the boat you choose does not include a spinnaker & pole, is a drifter sail. AkA gennaker, aka screecher, aka Code Zero.... You'll hear a number of terms thrown around, some of them generic, some narrowly intended & proprietary.

Anyhoo, what it is: a middling-large nylon genoa that flies on its own luff. Figure somewhere between 135 and 150%, cut fat, positive luff round. In its Code Zero incarnation, the drifter is primarily meant for headings from, oh, just below a beam reach to a close reach (almost close hauled). Its purpose is to get the boat moving in less than 8kts true wind and to gin up apparent wind thereby. You can sail lower on it, tho it starts to fold up below 120* unless you have a block on the toe rail; and it's big, light, and deep-cut enuf to be really effective poled out to windward, wing-and-wing. They are inexpensive, easy to rig (generally using existing deck hardware), fairly easy to tack and jibe, and quick to douse. Also, they stuff into a tiny bag.

A drifter lacks the raw downwind power of a big-shouldered asym -- or the raw sail area of a symmetrical spinnaker, which is generally half again as big as main + working headsail. Drifter is better upwind (which matters on lakes!) than either, and somewhat easier to handle. I often run our nylon genoa (drifter) singlehand on our SJ21, on inland lakes with v. flukey winds. It's much less terrifying than a spinnaker! We can get as high as 55 degrees to the true wind (tacking thru 110*) with the drifter.

One other possibility -- tho here you start running into serious costs -- is a removable furler for an assym or drifter. Has the same ease of operation as a jib furler, without much foredeck work. To tack or jibe, you can roll up the nylon sail, change tacks, and unroll it on the other side. Presto.
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Last edited by bobmcgov; 07-15-2014 at 06:30 PM.
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Minnsail – Flying a spinnaker on a C22 is a pretty easy affair. I first flew mine while tied to the dock. You will be doing end-for-end gybes which means to gybe - you will unclip the pole from the mast, reclipping it to the (soon to be) “old” spin sheet, then unclip from the old guy and reattach to the mast. Easy peasy and quick too. No after guys are required. All you will need is a topping lift and a foreguy. Your spin sheets can be 3/8 dia and 40 – 50 long. Why so long? When you douse, you will be doing a “letter box” drop right into your companionway so you need your sheets a little long. If you are fancy, you can strip off about five feet of cover (if you are using something like Warpseed line) to take some weight off the clews. Once you get proficient, you’ll be kite flying all the time. I used to fly mine while on dates (Honey, can you hold the tiller for a sec? There’s something I gotta do...)
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Oh yeah, I second that! My boat came with a nylon 170% drifter and I love that sail. It gets me sailing on days when the other boats stay in because "there's no wind." Also it's big and colorful.

I've experimented with running the sheets through the spinnaker blocks, because that drifter is so big it feels like I can't move the jib cars back far enough for it. I'm not really experienced enough to know if it works better that way or not.

It can be kind of a chore to tack, though.
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Boats with bowsprits are rigged to run asymetrical spinnakers. Running them with a bow sprit is usually much easier than a traditional rigged boat. Once up the spinnaker is just like a large jib at the front of the boat, but can be awkward to take down.

On a traditionally rigged boat with a spin pole they usually run symetrical spins, but this is not always the case. I race a traditionally rigged boat that we have and run both, using a pole. The setup is slightly different and the rigging and gybing is very different depending on which spin we are running.

Symmetrical spins do better down wind. Asymmetricals can point higher and are often sailed at tighter angles to the wind at least when racing.

I have a lot of time flying spinnakers but never on a boat I was Captain. I'd be very hesitant to fly one on a small lake unless the crew really knew what they are doing.
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jephotog View Post
I'd be very hesitant to fly one on a small lake unless the crew really knew what they are doing.
HA... just fly the spinnaker in 5mph or less for a while until you get the rigging, raising, and dousing down and smooth. Hey a tiller pilot helps too.

SHNOOL <--- sailing on a small lake with a masthead spinnaker, many times solo, but never in higher winds until I started to get better at it.
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Re: Do the Cat 22s, and the S2 26 footers, etc., use spinnakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHNOOL View Post
HA... just fly the spinnaker in 5mph or less for a while until you get the rigging, raising, and dousing down and smooth. Hey a tiller pilot helps too.

SHNOOL <--- sailing on a small lake with a masthead spinnaker, many times solo, but never in higher winds until I started to get better at it.
Solo? Awesome!

I picked up a hundred feet of line so I can rig mine. I called a friend and we're going to head out on Sunday and see what sort of damage we can do.
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