battery question... - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-15-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
marinesniper is on a distinguished road
battery question...

I just bought a 1980 30ft Lippincott and do not know anything about the battery setup ...? I know there are 2...but that is it...

I know this is not alot of info and I might be flamed but if anyone knows I would be grateful...

I want to know how many amps I have to look forward to...I want to run an Garmin 3210 (just bought) GPS, 36 inch plasma tv, XM satellite radio with weather and a small microwave...

Anyone have any ideas or guesses to how long my battery will last before I have to run the engine...?

Should I buy a solar panel or wind (thing for gathering energy)...

thanks...no flames please., I am a newbie...and the microwave is the wifes orders...I am 30 she is 22, so I have to please her...!

later,

farzam
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 08-15-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Umm...it would help if you knew what size the batteries were...that would at least give us an estimate of what the amp-hour rating for them is.... saying you have two batteries means very little... you could have two 60 amp hour, Group 24 batteries.... or you could have two 200 amp hour, 8D batteries... or two nearly dead car batteries.

What you need to do is figure out what your electrical budget for the boat is by calculating what the amperage of each piece of equipment is and how long you're going to run it for per day, on average. Once you've gotten that estimate, you can figure out how much electrical power you'll need on average...

Your battery bank should be based on your daily usage...by some multiplier...If you want to recharge every day...then make the battery bank twice the average use...if you want to charge every third day, then make it 5-6 times the average daily use... Generally, you should never run a battery bank down below 50% before recharging it...if you do so, you will drastically shorten the life of the battery bank.

Then you need to figure out how to replace all the amp-hours you'll be using up. Will you be at a dock/marina or on a mooring, or out cruising?

For a mooring or out cruising—solar, wind and water generators are some good choices of ways to go.

Solar panels are a good option, but need to be backed up by another option, as there can be long stretches of cloudy or rainy days.

Wind generators are a pretty good option, while at the dock...not so useful when sailing IMHO.

Water generators are good when sailing, but useless at the dock...

A genset or generator can be useful, but has a lot of downsides to it... as fuel is both heavy and expensive.

If will you be docked at a marina with available shore power. If so, see about getting an AC-battery charger—get a good one, with three or four stage charging circuitry, no cheap ones...they'll kill your battery and burn down your boat.

If you don't have a shore power system installed...it might be worth installing one.


Running the engine just to charge the batteries is generally not such a good idea, and should be avoided if possible. Running a diesel under a light load is a good way to give it lots of problems in the long run... they don't like being run under a light load...and doing so too often will result in maintenance nightmares.

If you need more specific advice...drop me a PM.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 08-16-2006
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,878
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Farzam... Without getting technical:
Do you have a battery switch on the boat that says 1-2-Both-Off???
If so...you have one "House" battery for things like lights and GPS and one Starting battery. With the switch...you can combine them or isolate them and my advice would be to isolate them so you never run the risk of not being able to start the boat! Any additional batteries you buy should be added to the "house" side to add more capacity to run different things.

The first thing you need to do is determine what type of batteries you have and whether or not they are any good. I assume you have a battery charge on board...so just put your battery switch on both and turn the charger on while you are plugged in at the dock overnight. In the morning...shut off EVERYTHING on the boat and wait an hour...then test the batteries with a volt meter. You should see 12.6-12.8V. If not...chances are you need new batteries...but there are a couple of other tests to make...but we'll save those till you do the above. Also..clean off the labels and tell us what kind you have...Group27, 8D etc. or failing that...the measurements of the batteries. Also do the batteries have water caps? If so...check the water level in each cell and if the plates are exposed...add DISTILLED water and hope for the best!

Finally...your hope of runing a microwave off the batteries will require a LARGE marine inverter AND a large bank of batteries. A 600 watt little microwave uses about 50 DC amps + conversion loss so let's say about 75 amps... or more than a lot of batteries capacity in one hour. A 36" flat screen will use about 15-20 amps as well. This kind of use is way to much for charging by wind and solar. Suggest you look into small generators.

Finally...before we into an extended help session...read the articles on batteries & systems here on sailnet http://www.sailnet.com/collections/g...ical/index.cfm
...They'll answer most of your questions....we're here for the rest!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-16-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
infonote is on a distinguished road
I would recommend, you get an electrician, even just to have a layout of the current electrics setup.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-16-2006
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,247
Thanks: 9
Thanked 107 Times in 78 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
I hope you saved about 5-6k

To wire this system up. Your requirements are high and will require significant cost to get the rated output you require. The satellite radio alone will draw 5-6 amps per hour, a 36 inch plasma (I can't beleive this was not a typo) will draw roughly 30-45 DC amps per hour after being converted to AC from DC. Although you won't be running the microwave for long periods you could burn upwards of 150 amps per hour depending on the size of your microwave. I'm guessing you'll also want to run electronics, running lights, water pressure, refrigeration etc. etc... I would suggest loosing the floating movie theater concept and use a laptop computer to play movies on. An HP 17" screen laptop plugged into the cigarette lighter and a car stereo aux input for sound draws about 7 amps per hour. You also need to take moisture into account when installing a TV. They will only last about 2-3 years in the damp cabin of a boat plus they are not designed to take the pounding when sailing to the weather in 25 knots of wind. At best buy an inexpensive 15" or 17" LCD tv. It wll draw less and when you have to throw it out you won't be out 3k..

For the set up you listed you would probably want at least six six volt golf cart batteries and 2500 watt inverter, a Xantrex battery monitor and at a minimum a 100 amp alternator with three stage regulator. Neither solar nor wind will keep up with these requirements..
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-16-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Anyone with a good dose of common sense and half a brain can generally do most of the electrical work on a boat. It just takes a bit of knowledge and mostly patience. Cam's advice is sound...
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 08-16-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
marinesniper is on a distinguished road
Yes I have an A and B or both, I will find out what size batteries I have when I return to the US. I think I should lose the microwave and opt for using a smaller 20" LCD screen, this should be more realistic.

Thanks...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 08-16-2006
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
You know, just my thoughts on the matter:

There is really nothing wrong with the microwave, the tv, nothing. If it makes you more comfortable and you have fun, do it. Just be conscious of the implications you will be introducing.

It may sound silly to first time boat owners, but even adding little household items to a boat can cause huge issues (not bad issues... just things to be conscious of).

I am sure there are some cruisers on this forum that do not have a microwave... but I bet most of them do. I do. I have a flat screen TV too. However, I have sized my boat loads accordingly and added a generator, dual, back-up, isolated bateries and banks, etc. Generator: $10,000 (unrealistically low) - $15,000 (maybe a little high, but not that much). Dual, isolated banks: about 1500-2000 dollars. Not to mention, all types of battery monitors, etc. PS, as mentioned earlier, microwaves and hair dryers take a "real" inverter... better budget at least $1000-1500 if you do it yourself. And one last little thing to point out: This has to be marine equipment. You cannot go to home depot and buy copper wire and put it in your boat unless you want serious issues. Marine wire only, amongst many other things.

DONT FEEL BAD ABOUT ASKING. THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS. AND DO NOT WORRY ABOUT SOMEBODY TRYING TO BELITTLE YOU. EVEN THEY STARTED SOMEWHERE.

This is how you learn... ask away. Sailors & boaters in general help others. All we are trying to do is give you the basics of what your decisions will involve.

Good luck... and make sure you get a good copy of Capt Ron for that new TV!!!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 08-16-2006
Surfesq's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay, MD
Posts: 1,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Surfesq is on a distinguished road
Farzam: Congrats on the 22 year old wife! I personally am not a fan of Microwaves but I understand the need. Especially with kids and bottles! But the TV is a must. My favorite Sunday afternoon activity: Head out to my favorite little secret spot near Oxford, MD....spin on a hook, fire up the grill and pull the flat screen out into the cockpit for a little barbeque, beer and Redskins!!!!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 08-16-2006
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,878
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
CruisingDad...Amen!

Farzam... Assuming you will spend most of your time at a dock...the microwave is not a bad idea. And..you can run one with a big enough battery bank & inverter for short periods...like to heat up a burrito!
I would downsize your TV ambitions however. You can get a nice 17-19" LCD that will only use 6-8 Amps and you can watch all evening for less than 30 AMPS which is nice. Satellite Radio is only a couple of amps unless you are trying to power a big stereo system too. All quite do-able with an adequate battery bank, inverter and charging system. Live the life YOU want afloat!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery Switch johar Gear & Maintenance 4 04-08-2003 04:28 PM
Adding 2nd Battery...help redbeard58 Gear & Maintenance 2 03-03-2003 06:13 PM
Wiring set-up for battery switch. pehrst Gear & Maintenance 6 06-18-2002 05:51 PM
Question on Dual Batteries Urband Gear & Maintenance 6 04-05-2002 10:00 AM
Dual Battery Installation Urband Gear & Maintenance 1 03-25-2002 08:57 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:41 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012