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  #11  
Old 11-06-2006
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If you blanket the jib with the main, then you would not be wing on wing then would you. I m not sure why you guys are argueing since by definition of wing on wing you are pretty much running and the difference in leeward and windward can be changed by a tiny bit of roll. Hence you need a control on both boom and whisker pole to be safe. Sailing very much above running and I am going to take the pole down and broad reach unless I am just too lazy.
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2006
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T34C has a spectacular aura about T34C has a spectacular aura about T34C has a spectacular aura about
We ususally race using fixed marks (non spinaker). Often the down wind leg is not DDW, but maybe 210-220. Not quite enough for broad reach. You can pole the genny way out to windward, or bring the boom to windward w/genny to leeward. (Yes we all know about the safety issues). In theory, which is faster???

Just wanted to lob some cannon fodder out there!!
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  #13  
Old 11-06-2006
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I would say you would get a better sail set with genny to windward and it would be easier to avoid the spreaders with the main that way. Which way have you found it faster since I know you have experimented?
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2006
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T34C-

I would say it makes more sense to have the boom to leeward still. It can't swing as far forward as far as the genny on a whisker pole, so it should have the larger of the angles to the wind to maximize the usable area of the mainsail.

If you bring the mainsail to windward, not only do you risk a gybe from it...but you effectively reduce the size of the exposed mainsail, as it is unlikely that you'll be able to get it out far enough to expose the same amount of surface area since the shrouds and such get in the way.
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Old 11-06-2006
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I concur with sailing dog. Also, If you want the definitive answer, get out there and try it. You will be an expert yourself in about 15 minutes.
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Old 11-06-2006
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Often the down wind leg is not DDW, but maybe 210-220. Not quite enough for broad reach. You can pole the genny way out to windward, or bring the boom to windward w/genny to leeward. (Yes we all know about the safety issues). In theory, which is faster???
It isn't usually a question of which is faster in terms of raw boatspeed. More often, the question is, how can you get to the next mark the quickest?

If the mark is very close to dead downwind, I set the sails wing and wing and, as the wind direction moves a few degrees one way or the other, I try to keep heading for the mark. If the wind direction shifts so far that I can no longer do so without gybing, then I like to gybe both the main and jib, and sail "wung out" on the opposite tack. Eventually the wind gradually shifts back a few degrees the other way, in which case I might have to gybe both sails back to the other side. The point is to generally sail as close as you can to a straight line to the downwind mark, because that's the shortest distance. If you decide to broad reach, then you have to gain enough speed to compensate for the added distance that you'll have to travel in order to get there. Cruising boats can't always do that.

It might seem obvious, but in order to get to the downwind mark fast, you have to get downwind as fast as possible. But the mark isn't always dead downwind. Sometimes it's off to one side of dead downwind. When that happens, you can usually get there the fastest (with white sails) by sailing wing and wing, approximately dead downwind, even though you're heading to one side of the mark. Then, when you get far enough downwind, sail the rest of the way to the mark on a beam reach. By sailing the last short distance on a beam reach, you'll approach the mark very fast while the others are approaching it very slowly, and you can literally coast around one or two of them, and still start the next leg of the course with good speed. If the windspeed is fairly steady, that strategy works well. If the windspeed is fluctuating a lot, then I steer dead downwind in the puffs and head up a few degrees in the direction of the mark in the lulls. If the wind also changes direction, as it often does in a lull, then I might have to gybe the main or jib and start reaching.

This downwind strategy isn't as applicable to the lightweight, fast racing boats, because they can accelerate to speed on a broad reach much better than a cruiser or racer-cruiser. Also, some boats with cruising chutes can broad reach much faster.

Last edited by Sailormon6; 11-06-2006 at 08:30 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2006
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Guys, wing on wing is about going DDW. If you aren't going DDW and you insist on going wing on wing, then you will be jibing like crazy and you better have a preventer rigged. A scar on my the top of my head attests to that. As someone pointed out, windward/leeward can change with the roll of the boat from a wave.

As for me, I prefer to have the boom out to port so that I'm on starboard and have right of way over all those boats on port tack. I had an experience this summer where I failed to do that, was on port, and ended up having to change course to avoid another boat -- causing a nice genoa wrap in the process. But when you singlehand as much as I do, you don't expect everything to be perfect.
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Old 11-06-2006
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1st, wing on wing is not always a DDW situation. Sometimes, espescially in light air the main would blanket the genny too much and the boat would be barely moving.

Agree w/Sailingdog. The times where I have had a chance to play with this the biggest problem has been that the main is stopped by the spreaders and can't present enough sail area to the wind. (As SD said)
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2006
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I have played with W/W a few times but always ddw, if I found the gen being blanketed, I simply sheeted in a little or both sheeting in & traveling up a bit, that usually spilled & filled the gen, then I would sheet out and travel out again, I do that as needed.

It didn't seem all that difficult, but maybe that's because I was doing something backasswards ???

Last edited by poopdeckpappy; 11-07-2006 at 12:40 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2006
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If you're sheeting in the main, to allow the genny to fill, then you're missing the point of sailing wing-on-wing, which is to maximize the surface area presented to the wind. This only occurs if you pole the genny out to the windward side. Then the effective sail area is that of both the mainsail and the genny, rather than just the mainsail or the genny.

When sailing on a run, the sails don't generate lift, as the do when sailing on most other points of sail. The only thing they do is present surface area for the wind to push against.

By sheeting in, you're allowing the air to fill the genny, but by reducing the surface area of the main. Effectively, you might as well be sailing on the genny alone.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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