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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Learning to Sail
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
If you're sheeting in the main, to allow the genny to fill, then you're missing the point of sailing wing-on-wing,

Well, I'm talk'n out my butt, as I don't sheet in the main in, I just travel up a bit until it fills than I travel out again, but that matters little and I do understand what your saying..............
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2006
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The basic geometry of sailing wing and wing is to maintain a 180 degree angle between the whisker pole and mainsail boom (they should form a straight line through the mast) and present this plane at a right angle to the wind. If the wind shifts, either the helm or the genoa & main sheets are adjusted accordingly.
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2006
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If the Genny is significantly larger than the main, are you better to take the main out to windward (within reason) to get more drive from the larger sail area?????
When you're running downwind, wing and wing, the boat is not being driven by a laminar flow of wind over the sails. It's simply being pushed downwind by the "weight" of the wind on the jib and mainsail. If the main is eased too far forward, then the excess wind spills over all sides of the sail. If you trim the main a bit aft, then the excess wind will be funneled toward the jib, and it'll pour off the luff of the mainsail onto the jib, and it will add slightly to the total "weight" of wind on the jib. The available wind drives the boat when it strikes the mainsail, and then it provides a little more drive when it pours onto the surface of the jib.

When the wind is pouring off the main into the jib, sometimes it can create turbulence and start spilling over the leech of the jib. When that happens, the leech will start to curl, and shortly afterwards, the jib (if it's not poled out) will collapse. You can greatly reduce the likelihood of that happening by either setting a whisker pole on the jib, or, if you don't have a pole or are too close to a turning mark to be able to set and take down the pole, by trimming the jib a little further aft, to prevent the wind from spilling over the leech of the jib.

The general idea is to use the sails to "capture" as much wind force as you can, and don't waste any of it by letting it spill out of the sails before you have wrung all the driving force out of it.

This works on a boat with a masthead rig, which has a big jib and smaller mainsail, but not on a fractional rig, which has a big mainsail and smaller jib.
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  #24  
Old 12-05-2006
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Sailormon6, sorry for being so late in reading your post. Very well put and very informitive.
If only it were warm enough to go practice!!!
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2006
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Thanks T34C. I'm suffering from withdrawal, too.
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  #26  
Old 12-05-2006
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I think even my withdrawal is frozen right now!
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  #27  
Old 12-24-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T34C View Post
I think even my withdrawal is frozen right now!
Yeah...I know what you mean. We ventured out and sailed Tues in a 20 knot Northerly. It must have been 50 degrees (couldn't really tell, cause the bright sun was glaring off the instruments)! Almost froze my Whisker Pole off (had to bring my post back on topic)! I actually had to put on some fleece
Sorry, couldn't resist. My sympathies from California: (But it's true!)

Last edited by L124C; 12-24-2009 at 05:36 AM.
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  #28  
Old 12-24-2009
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ZFACTOR,

Wow, there seems to be a lot of differing opinions here. Your question is a good one. But lets be clear about one thing, unless it is your intention to do, you do not want to accidentally jibe the boat, PERIOD! if the winds are light doing so is just slow and a pain. But if it is any bit sporty, it is simply dangerous.

That said, the whiskerpole will always be to windward and the mainsail to leeward. Any other configuration is just a representation of poor seamanship.

The next thing is running dead down wind is just slow and problematic. There are times when it is appropriate and it often depends on the type of boat your are sailing and how hard the wind is blowing, but generally you want to jibe down wind much in the same fashion as you tack up wind.

Your down-wind angles will greatly depend on how far to windward you can get your whiskerpole and how responsive your boat is to the various angles.

Here is what I would suggest, set the boat up for wing and wing. Then drive the boat dead down-wind and check your heading. Now, come up in to the wind about 25-30 degrees making the appropriate adjustments to your sails (Main in some - Headsail out).

Play around with your down-wind angles until you find one the boat likes. And yes, it is about what the boat likes, not you.

Hopefully, this will help some and should serve as a good place to start.

Kirk Jockell
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2010
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Wow, the misinformation is enlightening. The main is set always to leeward. If the course you need to go is further to leeward by all means move the pole and jibe. DDW or 180 degrees apparent is not the fastest way to a mark unless there is enough apparent wind to get you to hullspeed ( usually around 20 knots). On most boats 165- 175 degrees apparent is faster than DDW. Exceptions are when you can get transom square to waves to give you a bit of a push from the waves. Some boats can sail up to about 10 degrees by the lee in medium winds, something I only do if I need to fetch a nearby mark.

The trick is to get as much of projected sail area as possible. Ease main as far as it will go. Tighten outhaul to flatten sail (a deeper sail projects less). Release cunnigham and tighten main halyard. Vang should be on just enough to keep main from pumping. Ease backstay and pole genoa out as far as possible. Control twist with the pole downhaul and also control leech tension with with the pole topping lift.
In less than hull speed conditions get weight forward to reduce hull wetted surface. Additionally give the boat a couple of degrees of leeward heel by adjusting crew weight. As boat reaches hull speed move crew aft to stretch waterline on boats with an aft overhang.
Good luck with wing and wing. When done right it can be a lot of fun and the boat can be controlled reasonably well. Having you boat set up is critical to how successful you will be. If you use a preventer make sure it will break before major pieces and parts do. Thing of the preventer as a fuse. I recall a rather nasty accidental jibe in big waves on a 40 footer where the preventer didn't break but tore out a section of the toe rail which was a bit dicey.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
The trick is to get as much of projected sail area as possible. Ease main as far as it will go. Tighten outhaul to flatten sail (a deeper sail projects less). Release cunnigham and tighten main halyard. Vang should be on just enough to keep main from pumping. Ease backstay and pole genoa out as far as possible. Control twist with the pole downhaul and also control leech tension with with the pole topping lift.
Informative post...thanks! By "projecting sail" I assume you mean expanding the sail as much as possible to expose the largest profile to the wind. Is that correct? I always assumed some pocket was desirable to mimic a spinnaker (on a minor scale!). But I know realize that a Spinnaker is designed to max out the sail area in the first place, and the pocket is probably secondary, more a result of the loose footed nature of the kite.
When you said some boats can sail 10 degrees by the lee, I assume you meant Wing on Wing?
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