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post #41 of 51 Old 01-05-2010
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"My experience is 30 true gusting up into the high 30s. Last time was with my old Sabre 28 which didn't plane but surfed like a bandit. We averaged 8.25 knots for over 10 miles in those conditions. A bit of a handful on the helm but never out of control. Some of the boats around us tried flying their chute which caused a lot of broaches. One even put a blooper which didn't work that well blowing it and the spinnaker out simultaneously. Just be careful or you might end up like the boat below."

A blooper... that's a blast from the wayback machine! In a displacement boat like a Saber 28, and we're obviously talking about racing here, 30 kts true is a lot as your apparent wind is still above 20kts. But 30 true in a boat that will sail 12-18kts, (thinking a ULDB like a Moore 24 or Express 27 for a similar sized comparison) can be pretty nice with a skilled helm and kite trimmers.

But again, what's your reasoning for tightening the outhauls and main halyard? I have to agree with George B on main trim for low angles, but don't know that I'd want to stick a spin pole between shrouds in any circumstance. :^)
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post #42 of 51 Old 01-05-2010
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"But again, what's your reasoning for tightening the outhauls and main halyard? I have to agree with George B on main trim for low angles, but don't know that I'd want to stick a spin pole between shrouds in any circumstance. :^)" If you flatten the sail out it will have the largest amount of sail area presenting itself to the wind.

Positioning the pole between the shrouds was the only feasible option on a S-28. It worked o'k and was just a little bit tricky especially if the pole was highly loaded and you needed to jibe. I have been blessed with some talented foredeck people. You put the outboard end of the pole on the sheet never directly attached to the clew or bowline attaching the sheet to the clew. With the sheet and downhaul you can control the forward/aft movement of the pole
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post #43 of 51 Old 01-08-2010
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keep the boom to weather just to stay on starboard. you have to get a Walder boom brake of course .
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post #44 of 51 Old 01-09-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksparo View Post
keep the boom to weather just to stay on starboard. you have to get a Walder boom brake of course .
Huh? I think the consensus here is that the Genoa should stay to weather, for reasons that make a lot of sense to me. Rights not being one of them.
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post #45 of 51 Old 01-09-2010
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Quote:
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OK is it:
Wing on Wing
Wing and wing
or
Wing to Wing
or any of the above?
Various authors in my sailing library agree that the correct term is "wing and wing," but, personally, I prefer to use the past participle in the passive voice, "wung out," e.g., "My sails was wung out."
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post #46 of 51 Old 01-10-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormon6 View Post
Various authors in my sailing library agree that the correct term is "wing and wing," but, personally, I prefer to use the past participle in the passive voice, "wung out," e.g., "My sails was wung out."
Well then...sounds like if I had my my Main to Windward, I would have the Wong Wung to Weather!
Sorry!
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post #47 of 51 Old 01-12-2010
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Whisker to windward absolutely. You can always ease the whisker pole forward if you need to round up a bit or if the wind shifts. You can't do that with the main.
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post #48 of 51 Old 06-02-2014
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Re: Wing on wing

Sorry for digging up an old thread - but as I was just reading this, I had a question...

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Originally Posted by Sailormon6 View Post
When you're running downwind, wing and wing, the boat is not being driven by a laminar flow of wind over the sails. It's simply being pushed downwind by the "weight" of the wind on the jib and mainsail. If the main is eased too far forward, then the excess wind spills over all sides of the sail. If you trim the main a bit aft, then the excess wind will be funneled toward the jib, and it'll pour off the luff of the mainsail onto the jib, and it will add slightly to the total "weight" of wind on the jib. The available wind drives the boat when it strikes the mainsail, and then it provides a little more drive when it pours onto the surface of the jib.

When the wind is pouring off the main into the jib, sometimes it can create turbulence and start spilling over the leech of the jib. When that happens, the leech will start to curl, and shortly afterwards, the jib (if it's not poled out) will collapse. You can greatly reduce the likelihood of that happening by either setting a whisker pole on the jib, or, if you don't have a pole or are too close to a turning mark to be able to set and take down the pole, by trimming the jib a little further aft, to prevent the wind from spilling over the leech of the jib.

The general idea is to use the sails to "capture" as much wind force as you can, and don't waste any of it by letting it spill out of the sails before you have wrung all the driving force out of it.

This works on a boat with a masthead rig, which has a big jib and smaller mainsail, but not on a fractional rig, which has a big mainsail and smaller jib.
What about a fractional rig with a small main and a genoa?
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post #49 of 51 Old 06-02-2014
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Re: Wing on wing

A masthead rig is generally characterized by having a big jib and a small mainsail. A fractional rig is generally characterized by having a big mainsail and a smaller jib.

IMO, sailing wing and wing with a masthead rig is much easier than with a fractional rig. I think it's because the generally smaller genoa of a fractional rigged boat can easily become overwhelmed by the turbulence of the wind that spills off the big mainsail, and, as a result, the jib gets backwinded and collapses much more easily. I think the relationship between the size and orientation of the mainsail and the genoa is what causes it to be more difficult to sail wing and wing with a fractional rig. It can be done with a fractional rig. It's just more difficult, IMO.
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post #50 of 51 Old 06-02-2014
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Re: Wing on wing

Thanks. The class jib for my R20 is just a little bigger than the main. Without looking it up, I don't know the actual measurement - but the genny is considerably larger still, of course. The obvious point I guess is that the main is sitting much higher than the fore-sail at the foot and at the head. Maybe that's the operative difference?

Just another one of those things I'll have to try when I feel ready.
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