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My daughter wants to learn to sail

4K views 20 replies 17 participants last post by  arknoah 
#1 · (Edited)
I laughed and asked her if we looked rich, but it turns out that sailing isn't strictly for folks born into trust funds. Who knew, right? Some Google fu revealed there's a local ASA certified school for keelboat sailing and certification, and a community sailing program that offers instruction in dinghy sailing. The community sailing program looks more geared towards smaller children, with the teen programs assuming you already know how to sail. Due to that, she wants to take the ASA courses and get the certifications, but that would have her learning to sail on J/22s and a J/30, which seems like a lot of boat for an inexperienced teen. If she'd rather learn from a more adult oriented class I totally get it, but I don't want to put her in a situation that's way over her head either. Do you guys think taking ASA 101 and 103 classes are worthwhile for somebody new to sailing?

Second question, although kind of related. It sounds like a ton of fun to get a cheap dinghy and hit the local lakes over the summer. Do they make something that can hold a family of four, with maybe some light camping supplies that can be car topped or towed behind a typical 4 cylinder car? Ideally something that's still fun to sail after dropping the supplies and half the crew at camp. We live in Colorado, so it would be used strictly as a weekend lake toy.
 
#3 ·
4 people and car toppable ain't a good idea.
Small trailer is 100%

Also look at the Capri 165...

But nothing at all wrong with a young teen sailing a J30, or J22. Anything that requires strength, has winches associated with it :)
 
#4 ·
Sailing hasn't been predominantly a rich sport, since they invented fiberglass. Most sub-20ft boats, with retractable keels or centerboards are easily trailerable. You would be down in the sunfish range, if you want to roof it, although, they are only good for 2 people aboard.
 
#5 ·
If she is interested in sailing, I would encourage her in any way possible! ASA 101 is taught on an ~20 foot KEEL boat with a tiller. 103 teaches how to handle a larger boat (~30 foot) with a wheel. If she is capable of driving, she is capable of handling a boat.

A cheap dinghy would be a blast, and increase her boat handling skill tremendously. It can also capsize (which is fun), and not break the bank. You are not likely to find one that will comfortably hold 4 AND be car top able.:svoilier:
 
#6 ·
ASA 101 is for people new to sailing. A J/22 is not a big boat. It's a sporty one though, we have an entire fleet of them that race at my club. She will be fine on the J/22 or J/30, the instructor will be on the boat. Let her go have fun and hopefully she has found a life's passion like the rest of us. If not, well, at least she tried and won't wonder about it.
 
#7 ·
Is it worth while? YES

I did ASA 101 that used a Colgate 26 for training. I really enjoyed the hands on instruction and seeing how everything was setup. Getting instruction from an experienced sailor was fun.

Consider some of the boats others are suggesting. Don't expect a car-top boat, unless it really IS a dinghy and your daughter (and maybe one more) being the only one on it. For a family of four in a camping/weekend style... Catalina 22 could work and are very popular all around, fairly lightweight, and setup for a weekend shouldn't take long once you get to a lake.

She can read up in the meantime, take the ASA101, then decide if it's still what she wants to do and go from there.

Most importantly, Have Fun!
 
#9 ·
If she does not have a strong preference, I'd encourage her to go with the dinghies at the community sailing center. Our community sailing center has all kinds of programs for young kids right through to adults. Aside from lessons, I think you can pay a monthly/seasonal fee and just go out and sail. All the information in a book and classroom can never replace the experience (and fun) of sailing solo in a dinghy.
 
#10 ·
What you are looking for to me screams a RS Venture. It is a modern design, so not many used ones on the market, but it was designed from the ground up as an entry level family/training boat. The company RS has an exallent reputation, and they are selling a lot of them to training schools. It's also light enough to tow behind almost anything.

The downside to any 4+ person boat however is that it will be marginal for her to use solo. Learning to sail is almost all about time on the water, so if the boat is just for your daughter I would find what small dinghy is raved locally (laser, 420, V-15) and buy one of those for her.
 
#11 ·
The community sailing center can be a great option both for classes AND sailing as a family before you make a purchase. Have the rest of you sailed or is it just her asking that might bring the rest of you into it?

Our twins took week-long sail camps at our local sailing center on J-22s, Sonars, and also got to try out the Access dinghies. They were 12 when they started. This year (they are 14) they'll get a week at a camp using Optimist dingies - I like the idea of them having to be in charge of their own boat and gaining independence and comfort on that level. As you mentioned, the beginner program is targeted for younger kids, but ours are right at the edge of the weight/age limit so are being accepted into the beginner/intermediate group.

They got U.S. Sailing certifications with the keelboat classes (like ASA). I like that they learned on the bigger boats with people - that is giving them the confidence to go out on their own on the dinghies.

If you still want the car-top option, you can take turns going out in pairs. Those of you on land can take photos and video!
 
#12 ·
Yes, look for local sailing groups, may be yacht clubs, (not all expensive) boat clubs, Coast Gard/Power Squadron, even some YMCA/YWCA can have sailing programs. Locally by me in the Hudson Valley, New York there are a couple of groups that have youth sailing. You don't say where you are, but lots of options without having to own a boat right away. If she really likes it, you can look into getting an inexpensive boat, and may have to start with that if there are no programs in your area. ASA classes are great but not really youth oriented, more so towards ownership of your own boat, but 101 is good, and will show how to do it, in a fashion that will transfer to any small boat.
 
#13 ·
If you can comfortably afford the ASA class, have her take that. She will learn far more, and understand what she learns, in a formal three day ASA class than she would in weeks of sailing at a community club. I offer this advice as a current ASA instructor who learned to sail at a community boating club... The learning experience is best with only three students in the boat...

As to a family trailer-sailboat, I suggest you look up a S2 6.7 or 6.9, a reasonably well made, well sailing boat see S2 6.9 Sailboat "JollyMon": S2 6.9 Review
 
#14 ·
It's certainly possible to learn to sail either way, but I'd take two things into consideration: your daughter's personality, and the type of sailing she thinks she'd like to do after the class.

Does she have the confidence and self-assurance to take a class with 2 or 3 adults, and participate fully? Or would she be more the type to hang back a bit and let others take the lead?

If she thinks she would like to sail as part of a crew on keel boats, then the ASA class might be a better option. If she wants to sail a dinghy on the lake by herself, I'd steer her to the dinghy class.

I'm probably biased toward the community dinghy program, as that's how I learned (as an adult). Most likely, she would be in a dinghy with one other child or by herself, which means she'll be hands on all the time. I don't think the fact that the class would be geared towards younger children matters all that much, the skills being taught won't be any different.

My son took a dinghy class in a Sabot when he was about 13, while the other kids in the class were probably 3 - 4 years younger. It worked out fine - the smaller kids were paired up, while my son was by himself. It was basically the same class I took, just with all kids instead of all adults.

Good luck!
 
#15 · (Edited)
To answer a couple questions, and I really appreciate all the responses, we recently moved to Denver from Santa Cruz. The ASA school is Victoria Sailing School. The community program we're looking at is Community Sailing of Colorado. If anyone is familiar with either place and more importantly the instructors I'd really appreciate any feedback you have.

As to the other frequent question of her personality and being compatible with learning alongside adults. She's always been precocious for her age, skipped 5th grade, just finished her freshman year of high school. She's never gotten along great with people her own age, and in large crowds at parties and whatnot tends to socialize with adults and kids older than herself. She's a fairly serious bookish kid. She can easily spend a full day engrossed in a specific subject. That's part of the reason she was less interested in the day camps at community sailing. They're structured with games and stuff to break up the day, where my daughter if she's interested in something would rather just focus on that one thing and learn it in depth. She's not 8. She doesn't need break times, recess, fun little games, etc, etc.

Somebody else asked if anyone in the family sails, and the answer is no. I grew up on the lake, but only in powerboats. The kids have been in swim lessons, on swim teams, or in junior lifeguards since they were in diapers. My wife grew up at the beach and on swim teams through high school, so we're all pretty comfortable around and in the water, just have to figure out that whole wind driven power deal.

I really appreciate all the boat suggestions and have been looking them up as they're mentioned. The local supply is a bit limited being in a landlocked state far from a coastline, but we're not in a hurry to find the perfect family boat either. We might start with a cheap dinghy though to play around in this summer while we learn. There's a Snark Sea Skimmer, fully rigged, for sale locally for $200. Both sails and hull look pretty weathered, but it's a complete boat, and it's super cheap. We could car top it. It says it'll hold two but the weight limit is 310 pounds. I'm about 190, and I'd guess my daughter is around 120. Not sure how well that would work. Although we could take turns solo sailing. The other decent looking option is a really well maintained Flying Junior. Fully rigged, includes trailer, recently painted, most of the sails are newer, it includes spare sails. No spinnaker or poles, although those are options that can be used on the boat. $900. Seller says there's a local FJ fleet and organized races, although I have no idea on the accuracy of that, which would add potentially another dimension to enjoy next summer once we have some sailing experience. The FJ should hold two adult size folks from the specs I found online, although I can't find a specific weight limit. There are also a couple different Sunfish locally in the sub $1,000 price range. One is $500, includes trailer, but needs a sail. The other is complete at $700 and has a trailer, but the trailer isn't included in the sale price. Any thoughts on those options for a learn to sail boat? I'm leaning towards the FJ, although I have to admit that's based entirely on her looks. With the brand new paint she's a pretty little boat, and all the rigging looks cleaner, newer, or better maintained than the other boats.

Edited to Add - There's also a pretty beat up 16' Hobie Cat with trailer for $500. Seller says it sails right now and the tramp works but it needs some TLC to get it into shape. It's stored outside exposed to the weather so the tramp and rigging is probably pretty beat up. Just to throw a multihull option in there.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I recommend that you let your daughter choose her own path rather than overwhelm her nascent interest by trying to make it a family thing instead of her own thing. Let her choose the lessons; maybe help her by doing some research on where would be the best possibility for her to meet sailors who are her age. Don't rush buying a boat until she has some experience, decides that she likes sailing, and knows enough to have an informed opinion of her own. Her boat choice will probably be mostly influenced by whatever the young sailors in your area are sailing, and that is OK. A typical teenager would prefer a smaller boat that she could comfortably handle herself, without Dad's assistance.

On the other hand, if you want to make a family activity out of sailing, strike off on your own path. That type of experience, and the boat you'd buy for it, is most likely different than what your daughter has in mind. A lot of advice here does not seem to be made from the perspective of a teenage girl. Maybe you should be asking your daughter instead of a bunch of old fart guys that you've never met. I am one of those old farts and I've never been a teenaged girl, so I could be wrong, too.
 
#18 ·
I think Jwing's advice is good, but I would seriously rethink the day camp option. I appreciate that she may mentally not want the break from sailing, but sailing is very physicals and mentally taxing and to work at it for an entire day is impossible. Somewhere around two hours is the most that someone can really focus on it at a stretch before you are just going thru the motions, which is why sailing schools by design include breaks and non-sailing activities. It's based on the training schedule for professional teams that do one hour sprints followed by an hour of recovery.

As for the boats you listed... The snark is not a boat, they are boat shaped ice chests. I own one, and couldn't recommend it less as something to learn on. The same styrafoam that makes them light also makes them bad boats for a host of engineering reasons. The FJ is a very well known trainer, but is typically a more advanced boat than you may want for now. After looking at the Sailing Center it looks like they have a lot of stuff going on, I would probably jump in there without a boat for a while, at least a few months, and see what she gravitates to. My guess is the SC makes its boats available either for free (to members) or at a pretty reasonable rental rate, and I would do that to start.

Once she has gotten some time on the water she will have a good idea which boats she prefers, then I would target that one. The downside to buying a boat that is raced locally in good numbers is that the price will be hire than a non-class boat. The upside is you can generally sell them locally quick for a little more as well.
 
#19 ·
Your daughter sounds like a very mature and determined young woman. You are right to encourage her and to join her in it. I did that with a couple of interests of my kids and they became great father/son and father/daughter bonding activities. The FJ sounds like a good deal.


I've worked with teenagers professionally for a 35 year career and I know girls like your daughter. Your father's gut tells you that she will hold her own in an adult beginners course, and I'd bet you are right.

There was a young girl in Australia who started out the same way as your daughter. She took a dinghy sailing class and loved it. One day, when she was standing on a dock, a guy came in on his boat and she called to him to toss her his line. He wouldn't throw her his line because she was "just a girl" and he waited until a man came down on the dock. She swore that day, that one day she would have the credibility as a sailor that anybody would be pleased for her to take their line. She came home and announced to her parents that she intended to sail around the world alone. They hoped that it was just a childish phase she was going through and ignored her. Every weekend, when her girl friends were partying and going to the mall, she raced sailboats. She began her plan to sail around the world. When it looked like she was serious, her parents tried to talk her out of it. Then, when that seemed futile, they helped her.

At fifteen, Jessica Watson sailed around the world non-stop before she learned to drive. She is now a national hero of Australia, recipient of the Australian Queen's National Merit Award (OAM), a professional skipper, and, at 23, a motivational speaker. Her video blog is available on YouTube.

You never know where a child's interests will take them.
 
#20 ·
Another option here is to follow the path I took in learning to sail. I taught myself. I knew nothing of sailing, but got itch (for some reason) when I was about 28 years old. found a Capril 14.2 for cheap, which sounds like it might be like the FJ you mentioned, and I just taught myself. I did read many books, believe it or not Sailing for Dummies was very good as far as I was concerned. My (now) ex-wife and I learned together. We sailed with just the mainsail up for a long time, until we felt comfortable. We (I) screwed up a lot, but seldom made the same mistake twice. On a small boat, you might find it easier to learn by yourself and at your own pace. You won't feel pressure "performing" in front of strangers (unless it's launching or retrieving the boat at the ramp), but seriously, I loved that little boat.

Anyway, I know I might be the only person who thinks this might be a good idea, but since you said your daughter is "bookish" (I think you said that), maybe she'd be okay learning this way. And when she DOES become more proficient on the little boat, she might get into racing and could be a demon on the race course. Especially if there's a local FJ fleet.

Anyway, just another option no one else has mentioned. :) Best of luck to you and your daughter tho! I wish I had sailed at her age.
 
#21 ·
You’ve got some great advice here, and let me give my welcome to your daughter to the fellowship of sailing (I just made that up….)

The ASA 101 and 103 courses are great introductions, and she will learn a lot about sailing in those courses. Afterwards she should have some reasonable confidence in using the boats you originally described, though the more she practices sailing, the better she will get at it, so having the opportunity to practice and play is really important.

I can also see how she might not want to be in the camps at Community Sailing, since the age range is 8-17, and I don’t know lot of 14-15 year olds who want to spend 6 hours a day in the same “classroom” as 8 year olds). Also, you might want to see if she could take the adult class at the center rather than a stand-alone course. It looks like their instructors are certified by USSailing rather than ASA. My sense is that starting off with renting boats from Community Sailing (if they offer that service) would be a really good and less expensive way for her to get started before purchasing a boat.

My best wishes for your daughter. Give us an update once you make some decisions. We’re innately curious (or “nosy”) around here….
 
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