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Man overboard

5K views 26 replies 17 participants last post by  tenuki 
#1 ·
It sure is good to be sailing again after the holidays. I got to go out yesterday and the Sunday before.

We got back to our Marina too early yesterday and decided to try a man overboard drill. We were outside Shilshole in a Cal 25 with me, a new skipper with about 10 sails so far, a couple that had never sailed before, and my 10 year old daughter on her second trip out. We had the main all the way up and the roller jib on, I think it's 130%. And the winds were just hitting 20 knots. They were mostly 10-15 earlier in the day.

We threw out a lifejacket tied to a bumper and began our drill. After about 5 passes, we decided to roll up the jib. After another 3-4, we decided to drop the main and motor for it. We finally recovered it, but it must have been over 30 minutes later. We were trying the figure eight method I think.

Anyway, I know I need a lot more practice with this, and besides practice, practice, practice, and your comments here, what's another good source of training? My old instructor offered to let me come out with her class on Feb 11th for free to practice more so that should help too.

I've done it alot better in my earlier attempts, but I think the 20 knt winds made it interesting.

Ray
 
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#2 ·
Ray- First let me say in all seriousness, that it is excellent that you are practicing your MOB drills. It is good that you tried different methods in a effort to find what worked best. Keep up the good work!! Please also remember that you need a MOB proceedure that you can depend on NOW while you are perfecting the other methods. With such a novice crew, and your young daughter on board you need a MOB proceedure to use in case it is needed, even if that NOW proceedure is to let it all fly and motor back.

I too sail with my kids onboard and have learned that you always need to be thinking, "what do I do if..... ?"

Just out of curiosity, why does your avatar show a J22 when you sail a Cal25??
 
#3 ·
Good effort, Ray - it brings up a thought or two, though, doesn't it?

Wouldn't have wanted to be the one in the water for 30 minutes waiting for rescue... esp. this time of year.

The 20 knot conditions made things more difficult, no doubt, but in fact it's far more likely that someone may go overboard in such conditions than in more benign circumstances.

It certainly reinforces the point that you can never practice too much - in all conditions. It's important to know your boat, how far it will travel when luffing head to wind (in various conditions); how quickly you can stop it....

Another thought... did you happen to "run over" your "victim" during any of your attempts??
 
#4 ·
Man Over Practice

It's great that you are trying to practice this. We do it once in a while to recover someone's hat (in windy conditions). What works for me is as follows: 1. Tell someone to point to the object overboard. and 2. The driver jibes the boat. That puts the boat in a circle and you coast up to the floating object.

You can also do an immediate "hove to" move, and theoretically you'll float back to the object....but I haven't tried that technique.

It's a fun exercise. The real hard part is getting someone back on board.

Anyway, we should all be practicing this.

Moe
 
#5 ·
yes, we ran over it twice when just the main was up I think.

I don't own a boat. I learned at Seattle Sailing Club last Fall and passed my ASA 101 and 103 there. They have about a dozen boats altogether. My 103 class and $200/mo certified me for their 5x J24s, 2x J22s, a Catalina 22, a C&C24, and the Cal 25. They also have a couple J80s, J105s, a J30, J35, Catalina 34, and a C&C 36. Their sister company is a yacht brokerage that sells new J boats, Alerions, and True North power boats.

I made the J/22 logo when I reserved my first boat, but never ended up sailing it because too many people came along. It's funny I picked that club because of all the J boats, but in the 4 times I've skippered so far, it's never been a J. It'll happen eventually as the spring and summer race season gets going. I'm very happy with the club and glad I don't have to make boat payments or pay moorage anywhere.

If someone forced me to trade my club dues in for a boat before March, it'd be a cheap Catalina 27 with a diesel. But I plan on staying with the club for a long time and may never buy a boat.
 
#7 ·
I think your lifejacket would have died from hypothermia... Practicing MOB drills is essential, and repetition makes it go much smoother, especially if you practice in various conditions—light wind, heavy wind, choppy seas, calm seas... etc.

One thing to be aware of if you're doing drills with just a lifejacket or PFD—a MOB weighs a lot more...so it takes a lot more effort to get them out of the water. A friend of mine had us do MOB drills with a weighted dummy in a PFD... let me tell you, it was a rude awakening...
 
#9 ·
CDRA said:
A rigid attached boarding ladder with at least 3 rungs below the water line makes getting your manoverboard on board easier.
You're assuming that the MOB will be able to assist in re-boarding, which is often not the case. Even a short immersion in cooler waters (<70˚) can lead to almost complete incapacitation on the part of the MOB. :rolleyes:
 
#10 ·
Ray, you said you "ran over" the MOB (pfd) twice. If you were able to maneuver close enough to "run over it," I don't understand why you weren't able to recover it. If you can get that close, then you should be able to hook it with a boat hook and pull it out of the water. Did you have a person with an extended, telescoping boat hook, positioned on the side where the boat would pass the MOB?

Years ago, an Annapolis Sailing School instructor taught me that, after you steer the boat to windward, while it is coasting toward the MOB, you should steer the boat as if you're trying to run him down. (Obviously, you shouldn't actually run him down. :rolleyes: ) The point is that, you want to recover him as quickly as possible, and preferably on the first attempt, so you want to get as close to him as possible. When you coast up to him, you should be going very slowly, and you can bear away from him a bit at the last moment, so you don't actually run over him.

In a MOB situation, in addition to the boat hook, you should also have a throw bag or similar device at hand, so that, even if you don't get close enough to snag the MOB with a boat hook, you can throw a line to him and pull him alongside. If you don't have crew to help you recover the MOB, it would probably be difficult for you to move from the helm to the side or bow of the boat in time to reach him with a boat hook, but you can probably throw him a line without leaving the helm.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I prefer the "quick stop" method when possible, it's the second method on the US Sailing page I've attached. If you watch the video you'll see it looks like they are gonna run the victim down as Sailormon mentioned. I also carry a floating line in a throw bag that's readily available on the rail which can be thrown pretty quick and will trail around to the victims back like picking up a waterskier if you turn quick enough.
http://www.sailingusa.info/man_over_board.htm
 
#12 ·
I worked on a 100ft charter boat for the last 3 years or so and we had a procedure that we practiced regularly. Someone would toss a buoy over at random that had several large buckets attatched to it. This is from a crews perspective.

Whoever spots the MOB point and hollar and notify skipper/captain "man overboard, off the stbd/port side appx X meters back" (now everyone knows where MOB is). IMPORTANT, Never take your eye or pointer off the MOB as they are easy to lose sight of at night, rain, or waves. While doing this you and other crew must make sure no "brave souls" jump in after the MOB because then your problems have doubled. You or nearest person should then toss the throw ring, bag, or any float to the person. Then Confirm with the skipper/captain that they have a visual so they may plan the approach. Once the skipper/captain knows where the MOB is you may head to the planed boarding location of the particular vessel with your extended wisker pole and be ready to scood the MOB up.

Now I know the procedure would be different for a sailboat unless you decided to fire up the motor and drop sail, however the procedure of spotting, tossing floats, and notifying skipper/captain are very important as well as MAINTAING A VISUAL.

Sailingdog - its funny that you say MOB's are usually not able to assist because I had one captain that stressed how ugly it could get. He even said that if necessary we should knock them out so that they don't drag us in with them. I don't know about knocking someone out but people sure do get desperate in cold water.
 
#15 ·
Man/crew overboard

How wonderful that someone's thinking about and practicing a recovery -- and is honest and caring enough to report problems! That's step 1 in addressing an issue that most people prefer to wish away.

Here are two suggestions based on lots of study, lots of tests, and lots of talking with people who've gone through a real emergency:

1. During practice, a life jacket or cushion in the water will blow with the wind faster than a human body. For a more realistic simulation, attach a drogue (small parachute) or counterweight (maybe a coffee cup will do).

2. For a report on the most thorough tests I know, go to either of these links:

BoatUS.com/Foundation
USSailing.org/Safety


and click on COB Final Report.

I wrote it, but all the work was done by the testers during four days of trials on SF Bay -- 400 tests in monohulls, multihulls, and powerboats from 23-54 feet. There are lots of hard facts and informed opinions on maneuvers (several choices), ladders (they don't always work), boarding platforms (problematic), throwbags (great idea), Lifeslings (another great idea), emergency lights (many recent improvements), and COB alarm systems (improving).

The report's in the public domain. Anybody can use or distribute it in any way so long as it's constructive. Any questions? Let me know.

John Rousmaniere

 
#16 ·
Quick Stop

I'd like to second the "Quick Stop" method referred to above. We participated in a Storm Trysail Club MOB seminar for Junior Sailors at Larchmont YC several years ago. Essentially, the method calls for the boat to tack IMMEDIATELY, all standing, and get back to the victim, while the crew works to get the jib or other foresail down. (Boats are simpler to maneuver with just the main up, and the victim is easier to see and approach with no foresail up. Our J/36 was fully crewed with 14 to 17 year-olds when we tried it for the first time with the spinnaker up in about 18 knots of wind. We were going about 10 knots when I threw over the cushion. The 16 year-old helmsman threw the helm over, and we tacked. The spinnaker draped itself back against the forestay and shrouds as the boat slowed and turned. The crew got it down, and we had the boat back at the "victim" in less than a minute. The biggest problem we had was getting these dinghy sailors to realize that a 10 ton boat doesn't just stop when you luff, the way a dinghy does. We zipped by that cushion two or three times at 5 knots until he got the hang of it. Subsequent returns were even quicker, despite "losing someone" in the middle of headsail changes and spinnaker jybes. Getting the different helmsmen used to the momentum, speeds and distances in an unfamiliar boat was the issue. It was also rough enough that the ladder, mounted on the transom, would have been a dangerous limb-breaker if it had been used. Having a tackle/harness system that ACTUALLY WORKS is imperative if you expect to get someone back aboard quickly.
 
#17 ·
Most lost overboard are permanently lost due to loss of visual contact. In any type of seaway it is scary how far you CAN'T see. To illustrate, have a crew member toss a floating object overboard, wait 15 seconds, and then call out MOB. In any significant seaway you'll never see the object. Kind of makes one reconsider that stylish black foul weather gear. International orange does seem to show up the best. Tossing other floating items over-board, immediately, does have merit although drift characteristics will vary widely. The single most important factor is CONTINUOUS visual contact with the MOB. If crewing allows, one person should be delegated this duty, without relief, and with absolutely no other duties until such time as multiple crew members have visual sight of MOB close aboard.
The tragic irony to such situations is that the MOB can see the vessel quite well, but all the yelling and waving in the world does not make them any more visible.
 
#18 ·
A better example of how difficult it is to see an MOB is toss a coconut overboard an look for it... It is about the size of a human head and about as easy to spot... which is to say almost impossible. Wearing bright colors, red, orange, yellow, chartreuse, will help a lot. People who buy foul weather gear in blue, green, black or white are just asking to become statistics.
 
#19 ·
COB/MOB Visibility

The quick stop is my favorite go-to maneuver, too. But if the SF Bay tests summarized in the COB Symposium Final Report and other experiences show anything, it's that different boats -- heavy, light, multis, monos -- can require different maneuvers. The points on visibility are 1000% correct. Below is a photo taken one flat day. Even at less than 50 yards, if the swimmer weren't wearing the yellow helmet, if there were no objects behind him, and if nobody was pointing at him -- all that and you wouldn't know he's there.

Sea Recreation Ocean Vehicle Fun
 
#20 ·
I keep thinking it would be useful to do MOB drills using greased watermelons to give an idea of the difficulty of seeing someone AND the difficulty of getting them back aboard. Speedy recovery would provide the benefit of a less waterlogged dessert prize.
 
#22 ·
The topic reminds me of the story about the Indian, loading his canoe for the winter trip south, with family and all possessions. When asked about tipping over and losing all in the frigid waters he replied, "I darest not." Experience in MOB drills strongly reinforces the point of not going overboard in the first place. Recovery may be an even money bet.
 
#23 ·
Actually, unless the conditions are relatively calm, MOB recovery is generally a less than even bet... especially if the cause of the MOB is a problem on the boat to begin with.
 
#24 ·
mgiguere said:
You can also do an immediate "hove to" move, and theoretically you'll float back to the object....but I haven't tried that technique.

It's a fun exercise. The real hard part is getting someone back on board.

Anyway, we should all be practicing this.

Moe
I just finished a class and the instructor suggested the hove to method for inexperienced crews. This is because the crew doesn't have to do much of anything and hoving to should calm down the boat nicely (important in a panic situation). Just make sure they don't release the jib sheets. Also the lack of gybing makes it less likely the problem will get worse instead of better.

If it becomes necessary you can make sure no lines remain in the water, then start the engine and recover that way.
 
#25 ·
From what I've read most COB rescue attempts get to the point you mention, ie finally getting a grip on the COB and bringing them to the boat. Sadly some of them, especially in cold water end there. Getting someone onboard who's been in cold water for any length of time is _extremely_ difficult it seems. Getting to them and putting a hand on them is the easy part.

Make sure your COB drill include practicing techniques to get them aboard as well. Lifeslings with tackle in our waters ( I sail in Puget Sound too ) are pretty much mandatory as far as I can tell ( more experienced people chime in please ).
 
#26 ·
Tenuki-

Exactly my point... someone who is hypothermic and/or unconscious is not going to be able to assist in their recovery aboard.

Most MOB drills are fine for locating and getting to the MOB, but neglect the very real and often most difficult part of the recovery—getting the MOB back on board. Even in this, they're often a bit "easier" than the real thing would be... have you ever tried to spot a person, in dark colored clothing, in the water... it is like trying to spot a coconut... unless they're wearing brightly colored foulies or a brightly colored PFD.

Lifeslings are nice devices, but basically useless unless the MOB can participate in their own rescue.

If your boat has significant freeboard, then how do you get the unconscious person back aboard. They can't climb the swim ladder...and if they're hypothermic, it is probably best to keep them as level as possible

That was the point behind my friend's weighted dummy MOB drills.
 
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