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Old 01-17-2002
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Newbie question

Talk about "elitist, arrogant, and shallow", "ludicrous and expensive". I too have owned quite a few boat that I bought for well under $1000 dollars, but generally after long periods of hard work and a lot of ''new'' and used gear, I have ended up with as much money in these bargains as I could have bought a fully operational and several times more expensive boat for and I have gnerally made out better financially when I have bought boats that were well maintained by prior owners (but perhaps in need of minor cosmetics) than when I have bought boats that were somewhat abandoned. I do agree with your ''covered in leaves sitting in someone''s yard'' point.

The original poster is new to sailing. He wants to learn to sail. There will be plenty of time for him to learn to restore old junkers later.

I also disagree with your wholesale condemnation of up to 25 foot keel boats. Most of the larger adult oriented sailing schools that I know of use 22 to 26 foot keel boats quite effectively to teach sailing. Obviously in this person''s case, there are not adequate facilities where they will be sailing for that solution to work, but is an excellent way to learn to sail in many venues around the country.

Boats like J-24''s can be bought as cheaply as $3500 in non-racing condition and are easy enough to sail, and have so much literature on how to sail one available, and have such a surplus of good used J-24 gear available that I think J-24''s can make an excellent, low cost starter boat for someone who thinks that they might be interested in learning performance sailing. Literally thousands of people have learned to sail on J-24''s or have owned J-24''s as first boats.

Lastly, learning to sail on performance oriented boats, does not automatically make "elitist, arrogant, and shallow sailors" any more than learning to sail on junkers automatically makes people who can''t be tolerant of people prefer to sail or recommend that others sail on nice boats.

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Old 01-17-2002
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Newbie question


We own a Morgan 384 docked at Toledo Beach Marina on Western Lk. Erie. Use to Live in Oak Harbor, live in Detroit now. Lots of opportunity to learn. Do you belong to a sail club? I believe there is one in Pt. Clinton, sailors are always willing to teach those who want to learn.
E-mail me at and we can discuss some options. ASA sailing classes are great. I am sure there are places in Ohio that offer classes, if not I know a few in the area.

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Old 01-17-2002
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Newbie question

Ahoy Jeff if your answer to the gentlemans question was off base for his area why go on with the same old drivel. My point was he could learn a lot over the next 15 years in the small venues that are available to him. In addition his area has a lack of vessels to chose from so anything might just have to do for now. For the last time fixed keel boats should not be considered as easy or desirable to trailer. Period. Rigging any vessel of this size is impractical at ramps and dammed hard if the rig is of good size. Period. The man needs some down time don''t keep him dreaming his life away. The best dreamed are those realised for what they are, GO SAILING ! GO SAILING ON ANYTHING !, LEARN EVERYTHING ABOUT SAILING BY DOING IT!. To say what you''ve said about nice boats (money) justs proves my point and although your right not everyone turns out that way but you have. To insult every sailboat owner not up to your standards is the very definition of arrogance. Junkers as you call them number in the hundreds of thousands probably millions by your own standards. But thats just my opinion. Big Red 56 Pirate of Pine Island.
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Old 01-17-2002
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Newbie question


Please disregard BigRed''s comments about "elitist,shallow" sailors. BigRed has never spent more than $1,000 on anything (unless you count that night in Vegas in 1972).

If you are fit and don''t mind getting wet, BigRed''s low budget plan would seem to be very rewarding. Although I wouldn''t recommend restoring a leaf catcher if you know nothing about boats! But keep in mind, plenty of competent sailors have started out in low budget keelboats.

There are a couple of very large lake (reservoirs) on the Columbia, so you shouldn''t have problem finding other sailors.
I would expect their recommendations to be very helpful.

Also, you can probably get plenty of free lessons if you know how to stock a cooler properly.


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