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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2007
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imiloa-

He was reefing for practice...not out of necessity... You might want to re-read what Goose wrote...

Looks like you had nice weather, while my weather goddess was dumping another 8 inches of snow and sleet on us over the last four days... UGH....

The Portagee's got a point... might want to have a rigger look at the rig and see if the forestay is too loose or too long... If the mast isn't supposed to be raked that far aft.. it would cause the weather helm you're having...

PS.... Goose...don't strangle the crew... BTW, Happy Birthday...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 03-20-2007 at 05:00 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2007
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Goose:
Happy Birthday! Its good to see people sailing. I have a "new to me" Helms 25 on the trailer and still have snow in the drive, so another month for me. I agree with the mast rake and rigging info. Do you have a centerboard? I can really adjust or eliminate the amount of weather helm by the amount my centerboard is down. 5 cranks down on the centerboard winch and weather helm is almost neutral in 8 to 10 knots of wind. But every boat is designed differently.
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2007
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The centerboard can compensate a little for weather helm as if you raise the board a little, the center of lateral resistance will shift aft, assuming that you have a typical centerboard design with the pivot point on the forward end.

The more you raise it, the more the center of lateral resistance will shift aft... until the board disappears in to the hull... and then it is the hull shape and rudder that will determine where the CLR point is.

BTW, if you raise it all the way on most monohulls...you'll get lots and lots of leeway... so you probably don't want to do that.
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New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #14  
Old 03-20-2007
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SD:
Here are 2 pix of the fixed keel and centerboard. I hope this works.


The fixed keel has 1650 pounds of ballast and the centerboard is another 300 pounds. It actually has weather helm with the centerboard all the way up. Weather helm is reduced as I lower the board.

Last edited by Wayne25; 03-21-2007 at 11:16 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2007
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Oh.... didn't realize it had a fixed stub keel... in that case, yes, you may get weather helm with the board all the way up since the CLR is determined then by the stub keel and rudder configuration.

BTW, a good video to watch about reefing and balancing the sails is available on youtube.com.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #16  
Old 03-20-2007
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Goose –

Leave it to Giu to point out what should have been so obvious to the rest of us, that your mast probably has too much rake in it. Double check with the Mac user groups (I think that your boat is supposed to have a little more rake than others but you may have too much right now). Drop a plumb bob from the masthead (using the main halyard). It should measure around 4-5 inches from the mast at the boom. This should also align your boom to be more parallel with the water line. Without a gauge it’s tough to get precise tension on the shrouds and stays – tighten them enough so there is no slack in the leeward ones when sailing in 10-15 kts of breeze. Your headstays shouldn’t “sag” off to leeward either. Another trick is to set your jib instead of the staysail which will also move the center of effort forward.


I noticed that you don’t have a traveler so you need to ease the mainsheet. A “little” weather helm is good. The opposite, lee helm is bad. I also see that you have tell tales on the luff of the main. You also want to put them on the leech. When trimming the main, you want the leech tell tales to stream back.


Is your staysail made by quantum? Sweet – that previous owner dropped some coin into her. Keep sailing and I hope to see you on the Bay real soon!


GeorgeB, s/v Freya
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2007
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Actually...this drawing of the boat shows a designed mast rake...but there is still a lot of sag in those stays that would help to be taken out.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2007
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Quick question... is it my imagination or does the upper set of spreaders sweep forward?? Shouldn't both sets of spreaders be swept back?????
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #19  
Old 03-20-2007
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Thanks Cam, I was going to post that pic too. I don't know for sure but all the Ventures I've seen pictures of are raked about the same as mine. The stays need tightening, but I'm not sure how to do it. The staysail(rear jib?) has a turnbuckle where it connects to the mast. The forsail is a cable affair that was part of the old stepping system. When I got rid of the old set-up and used the A-frame I did think far enough ahead. I'll pick up another TB for the tack end and then I can adjust both.
SD, the lower spreaders swing to the aft and the top ones are fixed forward.
As for the keel. It's a 600 lb hunk of lead on a pivot, and isn't adjustable. I was told to NEVER sail without the lock bolt in place. If I were to lay her down the keel could swing up and I'd have a real problem.

Here are a couple pics of other V23s, notice the rake.
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Four GREAT days on the lake-fullsail21.jpg   Four GREAT days on the lake-fulbot-31.jpg  
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2007
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Generally, the shrouds should never be sagging... slack on the leeward side might be okay, depending on the boat and design...but sagging or loose is generally a bad thing.

I was just wondering about the spreaders, because I don't recall seeing many boats that have forward swept spreaders.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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