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  #11  
Old 06-13-2007
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Here lies the body of Michael O'Day
Who died maintaining his Right of Way.
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.


Hey Guys, lets not get too tacky (pun intended) about this. Use your discretion and live another day. If the other fella wants to barge through? Let him, after awhile He'll make that mistake where he will be with our friend Michael O'Day.

Last edited by Boasun; 06-13-2007 at 01:29 PM.
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffer1960
Actually, it's multiplication and division before addition and subtraction; therefore 2*4+2=10, not 12. 2*(4+2)=12.
Geez, talk about a brain fart. Right you are and thanks for the correction. OP fixed.
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  #13  
Old 06-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun
Hey Guys, lets not get too tacky (pun intended) about this. Use your discretion and live another day. If the other fella wants to barge through? Let him, ...
Certainly the wiser course. (See: I can pun, too ) I alluded to that in my OP. But still, I think the issue both interesting in a mind game-ish kind of a way and important--especially for n00bz like myself. Sailboats have no brakes, rarely are ready to go into reverse at a moments notice and can take a relatively long time to "turn," depending on conditions. So I think it's a Good Thing if everybody sailing has the Rules of the Road firmly ingrained in their consciousness, so that doing the Right & Expected Thing becomes second nature.

I guess part of my reason for raising this discussion in the first place was to help more firmly implant the Rules in my brain. I'm sure hoping that steering the right course will become automatic, and I don't find myself having internal debates like "Now, was it port tack or starboard tack that should give way?"
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun
Here lies the body of Michael O'Day
Who died maintaining his Right of Way.
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.


Hey Guys, lets not get too tacky (pun intended) about this. Use your discretion and live another day. If the other fella wants to barge through? Let him, after awhile He'll make that mistake where he will be with our friend Michael O'Day.
I think I know a "Michael".

I went on a canoe and kayak beach camping trip years ago, paddling from the bridge to Wrightsville Beach out to Masonboro Island (not far from Wilmington, NC). We were all paddling, not sailing, and I was in a large whitewater canoe with a single bladed paddle. With the massive amount of cargo space (compared to the kayaks), I was struggling along loaded down with coolers and camping gear. We had to cross a channel that had heavy motor yacht traffic. The kayaks scooted across between a couple that had some separation between them, but it was all I could do to come about and get aimed right before it was obvious the second boat would get there well before I crossed. One of the kayakers turned around and paddled back into the channel and held his hand up and then yelled at me I had the right away because I was hand powered. The motor yacht veered around him at the last second and went between us honking and never slowed up. The kayaker was wearing a spray skirt, but I think it got wet in there anyway.

Technically, I think he was correct, but I waited until I had a much bigger opening and I drained all the water and dumped most of the remaining ice from the coolers before the trip back the next day.

BTW, we dragged our boats across to the waves on the front side and that was some amazing fun. Whitewater boats really perform well in sea surf.

Last edited by arbarnhart; 06-23-2007 at 12:03 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2007
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I'm still very new at sailing -- so concentrating on actually keeping the boat in control takes my attention. When I'm approaching another boat -- I have one rule, and one rule only: give them the right of way. Regardless who who may "legally" have the right of way, I'm in no rush. I'd rather take a few extra minutes to get where I have to go then spend some time treading water while watching my boat turn into a submarine.
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Old 06-28-2007
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PK--

I understand your point of view here, but you really ought to learn the rules regarding right of way. At least learn the "starboard stays" rule. What if, while on a starboard tack, you're sailing next to shallow water, or near a fixed obstacle, or near several other boats? Avoiding another boat when you don't have to could put you in a sticky situation. Chances are the other boat knows you have the right of way, and will be very confused if you try to avoid it, possibly putting it at risk as well. Yes, ultimately, you need to avoid collisions, regardless of who has the right of way, but in my experience most sailors know the basics regarding right of way.
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2007
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On the same tack, leeward has the right of way, windward doesn't. If in close quarters, windward has to keep clear. I don't think this is that complicated.

Last edited by nolatom; 07-17-2007 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 06-29-2007
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PassionKid,
You are certainly taking a good approach as long as you make your actions to avoid collision "early and substantial". The 'stand-on" vessel, previously referred to as the "privelaged" vessel, has the responsibility to, if risk of collision is deemed present to make her actions early, substantial, and of a nature that her intensions cannot be mistaken.

Why is this important?
The problem arises when vessels get in close proximity to one another. The stand-on vessel is, in essence, required to maintain course and speed until such time as collision cannot be avoided by the actions of the give-way vessel alone. Relatively recent rulings have held that things do not have to reach that point, but yet, remain unclear as to what the exact point is that resides just this side of "in extremis". This is a very scary situation and, unfortunately, not rare. The best advise, if such a situation may be seen to be developing, is to take the early, substantial, and unmistakable action. btw, I am primarily referring to crossing situations here. Most practically, that action involves an alteration of course to starboard. Alterations of course to port should, in general, be avoided unless the distance off is large. The alteration of course to starboard may, in fact, turn in to a "round turn" in that, based on the other vessel's late actions you may be forced into continuing your course alteration to starboard, doing a complete 360 degree turn, and passing under the other vessel's stern.

If you hold course until such time as you deem yourself "in extremis" and must take action, your only action can be a turn to starboard. If you alter to port, while close aboard, and the other vessel, finally, alters course to starboard, as she is required to do, you may collide and the fault will be assigned to you. The legal-beagle theory behind this is two-fold. The first part, and most baffling, is that "risk of collision" does not exist if no collision results. This is known as the miss is as good as a mile interpretation. The second, tied closely to the first, is that, by altering course to starboard, admittedly at the last minute, the give-way vessel's defense that he had a decent reason to delay course alteration until he did is irrefutable. Even though you are wetting your pants, his defense that he still had room to alter slightly to starboard, passing harmlessly under your stern, admittedly closely under your stern, will stand up in any court. Your alteration of course, to port, will be held as the proximate cause of collision.

Of course, the best way to avoid dealing with the complexities of Admiralty is to take "early, substantial, and unmistakeable" actions before you become "in extremis".
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Last edited by sailaway21; 06-29-2007 at 03:21 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom
On the same tack, windward has the right of way, leeward doesn't. If in close quarters, windward has to keep clear. I don't think this is that complicated.
I hate to disagree with anyone, especially being the newbee that I am. But after reading Nolatom's reply I had to go to my ASA 101 text book. It stated that on the same tack "the windward boat shall stay clear of the leeward boat".

I'm sure that he just made a mistake. But I just had to correct it for anyone new to sailing that might take it as true. I am corrct aren't I???

I'm not sure about in close quarter so I'll have to take his word on that one.
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailaway21
If you hold course until such time as you deem yourself "in extremis" and must take action, your only action can be a turn to starboard. If you alter to port, while close aboard, and the other vessel, finally, alters course to starboard, as she is required to do, you may collide and the fault will be assigned to you. The legal-beagle theory behind this is two-fold. The first part, and most baffling, is that "risk of collision" does not exist if no collision results. This is known as the miss is as good as a mile interpretation. The second, tied closely to the first, is that, by altering course to starboard, admittedly at the last minute, the give-way vessel's defense that he had a decent reason to delay course alteration until he did is irrefutable. Even though you are wetting your pants, his defense that he still had room to alter slightly to starboard, passing harmlessly under your stern, admittedly closely under your stern, will stand up in any court. Your alteration of course, to port, will be held as the proximate cause of collision.
None of which keeps the other guy safe from a good ass kicking the next time you see him at the dairy queen.
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