Question about Stand on Vessel - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 06-20-2007
SailorMitch's Avatar
Senior Moment
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MD
Posts: 1,931
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
SailorMitch will become famous soon enough
I think Eric Smith has it right that you were being overtaken, and thus you were the stand-on vessel. As such, you did the right thing by maintaining course and speed, such as they were. But a drawing of the course of the two boats would be helpful.

Otherwise (and not having Chapman's in front of me), two sailing vessels on the same tack about to cross -- isn't the windward vessel the "give way" and thus the burdened vessel?

One other option is to use the VHF radio to hail the other vessel to make sure he knows you are hove to and have restricted maneuverability. That may not be obvious to him.

Giu also makes a good point about shouting to the other boat, although my rule of thumb is that if you are close enough to shout, you're probably too close.
__________________
SailorMitch
Sailing winged keels since 1989.
1.20.09 Bush's last day the end of an error !! Hopefully we still have a constitution and economy left by then.


"Compassion and tolerance are not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength." The Dalai Lama


good planets are hard to find-- a song by steve forbert


I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging the future but by the past.-- Patrick Henry.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 06-20-2007
christyleigh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: North Brookfield, Mass.
Posts: 935
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
christyleigh is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by equitiman
Thanks guys...well at least I know now that the answer isn't perfectly clear...so it isn't just me . Just to clarify, had neither of us taken any action he would have t-boned me. He was on a close reach and I was hove-to with the wind coming over my starboard beam.
To avoid the T-boning I think you both did the right thing - he being the only one who could 'avoid the collision' did just that. My Guess on the instruction of heaving to on starboard tack is to make you obvious as a 'possible' stand on vessel whether fits into the other list of 'limited manouverability' 'stand-ons' or not. On a Sunday afternoon looking from my old marina in Greenwich Bay NGBay looking south over the bay I have counted well over 100 sails without being able to even see down to Newport which is a sailing zoo with usually another 100 itself. When it gets crowded I am in constant scan mode for 'stand-on' vessels that I may have to avoid and pretty much ignore the others - that's why I think you were trained that way.
__________________
Stan
'Christy Leigh'
NC 331
Wickford/Narragansett Bay RI
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 06-20-2007
sailortjk1's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Porter, IN
Posts: 4,647
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 10
sailortjk1 has a spectacular aura about sailortjk1 has a spectacular aura about
Where I sail, ITS A BIG FREAKING LAKE!
Just be courtious to the other boater, you see a boat hove-to, Go around the guy. Give him all the room he needs.

I don't know the exact situation from the original poster, but if there is plenty of sea room and no other vessels around, it should not be a big deal.

The approaching boat should see you from miles away. He has plenty of opportunity to adjust his course to go around you. If he makes a big deal out of it, than he simply is a jerk.
__________________
Courtney is My Hero

If a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most - E.B. White
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 06-20-2007
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,855
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
I'm safe there...people just run away from me.....(G)

If they see me coming...even if they're stopped, they start the engines and move away of my path.....

"Quick...hide women and children...Giu is coming....."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 06-20-2007
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 91
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
equitiman is on a distinguished road
Thanks again for all your replies. Shouting to him might have worked however by the time he was within shouting distance it would have probably been too late for him to take any avoiding action he hadn't already taken.

I think Sailingdog hit the nail on the head in terms of the situation I was in. Had I tried to tack I would have been in irons and even more helpless but had I decided to head off I would have gone even more directly into his path and cut off his only path to avoid me.

Regarding this being an overtaking situation, I'm not sure if that is correct. He was approaching me from my port beam which, correct me if I'm wrong, would not be an overtaking situation.

In any event, I'm the wiser for it and appreciate your responses.

Bob
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 06-20-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,808
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
I don't think it makes any difference if one is hove to on the starboard tack or the port tack.

Also, I agree with "sense" of dog's original post, but believe he cited the wrong rule. It's not "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver", but rather, "vessel not under command". The definition under Rule 3 is:

Quote
(f) The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. Unquote

A sailing vessel, when hove to, isn't able to keep out of the way of another vessel, since it's movement is wholly up to the circumstances of wind, wave, current, and her characteristics while hove to....forereaching, leeway, etc.

While a powerboat may not recognize the condition of being "hove to", another sailboat certainly should be able to recognize another sailboat which is hove to, and should take action to stay clear....quite irrespective of who's on what tack. IMO.

Bill
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 06-20-2007
Raven
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mdemuth is on a distinguished road
Good discussion.

When hove to, the degree which you are still making way and have steerage is variable, so while clearly not optimal I am wondering if you really are "not under command" or "restricted in your ability to maneauver"

Same tack, windward gives way to leeward (except in an overtaking situation). It is not clear you were being overtaken as you say other vessel was "approaching". Let's say you are crossing, then you are give-way

In the end, Col Reg 17 states stand-on vessel must take action to avoid collisoin if give-way vessel appears not to be taking (read "or able to take") appropriate action

As Giu and others have indicated, observation and communication important for all concerned.
__________________
Mike and Margie
Raven
S&S 35
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 06-20-2007
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,438
Thanks: 105
Thanked 54 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Huh?

Guys, I've been mulling this over, thought that I understood, but now I have a question.

I think that ericsmith3d has it right in that he was being overtaken, thus, the stand on vessel (must maintain course and speed).

However in the original post;
Quote:
I had hove-to onto a starboard tack and was fiddling around on my boat. Suddenly a sailboat on a starboard tack was directly approaching me from leeward. Of course I had no steerageway as I was barely moving and if I had released the starboard genoa sheet and trimmed the port sheet then I would have gone onto a tack that would have pointed me directly at the oncoming vessel.
Isn't that the wrong sheet? I mean shouldn't he have released the port jib sheet, and trimmed to stbd?

I even drew a picture so that I could try to figger this out... but it appears that the upload feature ain't workin' (I've beentrying this for about 1/2 hour... )

EDIT: I finally uploaded to the Photo gallery as a workaround. Here is the pic:
http://www.sailnet.com/photogallery/.../ppuser/132479 (Wow - that was hardly worth it!)

Ed

Last edited by eherlihy; 06-20-2007 at 11:13 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 06-20-2007
Raven
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mdemuth is on a distinguished road
Hi Ed, I drew a sketch also... with hove-to stbd tack, he has his stbd sheet in as the genoa is back winded

Cheers

P.S. speaking of graphics I cannot get my Profile Picture to show,.. it is small enough. Any hints ? format ?
__________________
Mike and Margie
Raven
S&S 35
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 06-20-2007
TrueBlue's Avatar
Señor Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 4,853
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 12
TrueBlue is a jewel in the rough TrueBlue is a jewel in the rough TrueBlue is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdemuth
P.S. speaking of graphics I cannot get my Profile Picture to show,.. it is small enough. Any hints ? format ?
If you go into the avatar editing screen after clicking on the User CP, a limiting image size notation is located at the very bottom, as follows:
Quote:
Note: The maximum size of your custom image is 150 by 100 pixels or 19.5 KB (whichever is smaller).
__________________
True Blue . . .
sold the Nauticat
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Learning to Share PracticalSailor Practical Sailor 16 03-05-2014 01:36 PM
Tow or Salvage? Kathy Barron Seamanship Articles 0 09-06-2004 08:00 PM
Tow or Salvage? Kathy Barron Cruising Articles 0 09-06-2004 08:00 PM
Waves and Boat Stability Michael Carr Seamanship Articles 0 03-25-2004 07:00 PM
Fishing Vessel? pirateofcapeann Seamanship & Navigation 5 12-12-2002 07:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:14 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.