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Beam reach problems????

4K views 29 replies 14 participants last post by  SailNet Archive 
#1 ·
So Im still very new to this wind powerd thing and Im having a problem. Last time I sailed on a beam reach in 20kts I was hard over on the wheel and was still rounding up. Tried again yesterday in 16-18 kts and it was somewhat better but I still had to fight it. To get rid of the boats urge to round up I had to let the mainsail all the way out untill it was luffing hard.
Am I running too much sail and need to reef it in? or is there a problem Im not seeing?
35 foot full keel sloop rig if it matters.
 
#2 ·
Would help if you said what make/model of boat it was. Some boats, due to their design, have inherent problems with certain points of sail. It would also help if you said what sails you had up.... The behavior of a boat will change with different sails.

In 20 knots of wind, you should probably have de-powered the sails as much as possible... Also, it sounds like you didn't have the sail plan very well balanced, and that may have contributed quite a bit to your problem.

BTW, how badly heeled was the boat... some boats, once they heel past a certain point will just round up, and because you're heeled over so much, the rudder doesn't have enough of a grip on the water to make a difference.

Without knowing what boat you are sailing and what sails you had rigged, it is hard to say whether you had too much sail up or not. Some heavier 35' boats won't need to reef in only 20 knots of wind, others will need to reduce sail a bit.
 
#5 ·
Wildcard, please...please don't be offended...

You are out in 20kts wind on a sailboat and you don't know the answer to your question....are you not pushing the envelope too much??

Again, please don't be offended, ok?? You really need to read some books or go sailing with someone more experienced.

Answer: Your boat does that because you have too much sail behind the mast. Try this:

1) reef one level on the main
2) Outhaul to the max
3) Back stay to the max
4) halyard to the max
5) Main traveller to leeward max
6) Don't sheet in the main so much
7) get someone that knows about this with you.

Please don't be offended, OK?? not my intention
 
#6 ·
I find that proper use of halyard/outhaul tensioning (sail flattening) and traveller position are among the more difficult sail controls to teach, the last because you have to get the role of "twist" across, as well as moving the center of draft, etc.

Most racers learn this stuff early, as do all dinghy sailors who like dry aft quarters. I suggest you go racing and play with these controls in 10 knots of wind until you internalize "well, if I do this, then this will happen..."
 
#7 ·
Ok, your going to think me on crack;
The new boat has a loose footed main, I know you hate to hear this, on a roller furler. I try to go max outhaul and I still cannot flatten the sail. I always end up rolling up a bit to reduce sail when overpowered. (And moving the traveler down)

I balance by reducing. Have not been able to completly flatten the sail adequately.
 
#8 ·
Broad reach, near 20 kts wind 10-12 degrees heel, the boat is just fine and Im sure I was on the right track and it has become apparent I was right, too much mainsail.
This is a 35 foot S&S hull with 5K of lead 5 1/2 feet down running a 100% jib and a single reef mainsail.
I have little time to sail my boat but seem to have plenty to sail others, I sail when Im home and it's blowing 20 kts every day right now. Any candyass can sail in 10 kts, 20 is a bit more of a handfull. BTW I have read every book out there (too much time with little to do in the desert) but reading only goes so far. Big seas are also no stranger to me, 35 feet with 50 kts of wind will teach you a lot about the sea but the wind part of this is still pretty new. I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track here, I was, thanks.
Held 6.8 close hauled today, very fun!
 
#9 ·
Hmm.. 10-12˚ of heel isn't much for a monohull.

Given that you had a single reef in the mainsail as well, I don't know if you had too much mainsail up for the conditions. I wouldn't have thought that more than a first reef in the main would be needed on a 35' boat with 5000 lbs. of lead in the keel in only 20 knots of wind.

Have you had the rigging checked, it sounds like the mast may be raked aft too much. Just a thought.
 
#10 ·
The sail was NOT reefed yet as I was not keeled over much. I was assuming tht was the problem and it seems to be. Trying again today. Thanks.

On an added topic, while going through my sail locker I found what appears to be a 180% Genoa with reef points? I have never heard o such a critter?????
 
#12 ·
I don't recall genoas much over 160%, but maybe I'm out of touch.

Sounds like you have enough seagoing experience to figure out the weather helm issues as you go along. Whole point is, center of lateral resistance isn't going to change much on that S&S hull, except as you heel her she'll want to round up more. So adjust your sail plan to move the center of effort forward, which means more headsail and less mainsail, in a relative sense.
 
#14 ·
Back in the 70s and probably before a 170 % was the norm on a racing boat. That was when the rating rules penalized area in the main but not so much the head sail. Silly rule that lead to very small mains and huge head sails, not a very desirable arrangment.
If this was S & S design it may well ahve been designed to the rules from that era which also favoured a narrow pinched stern. That shape I believe will tend to round up more which does not help the situation.

Gary
 
#17 ·
Lots of foresails, especially on older boats, with larger hanked on sails, were often made with reef points... to help forestall headsail changes.
 
#19 ·
Boat Balance

Are we to assume your jib is on a furler? Someone here mentioned mast rake, but if you're able to point pretty well, I'd leave that alone. Having said that, it does sound like your rig might need a tweak. One rule is that if there's too much weather helm, tighten your forestay. If there is any Lee helm, tighten only the backstay. The boat should gently round up with your hands off the wheel when you've completed your adjustments.

An easy indicator is checking headstay sag when the boat is trying to round up. If you have more than 6-8 inches in 20 knots, tighten your forestay 1/2 turn at a time and recheck the boat balance.

Rick in Florida
 
#20 ·
Rick-

Not all boats will have slight weather helm. Some have lee helm due to their design, and in some cases it is not easy to get rid of the lee helm. IMHO, this is generally due to poorly thoughtout boat design.
 
#22 ·
I dont think Im quite to the point of screwing with the rigging yet but I will give it a look. BTW this hull has virtualy no bend. Both the broker and surveyor were shocked as to how stiff the boat was. Both came to me later on and said "if you ever want to sell, call me first".
Going out again today and I'll watch. BTW no, this isn't a roller, yet!
 
#26 ·
sailortjk1 said:
Ok, your going to think me on crack;
The new boat has a loose footed main, I know you hate to hear this, on a roller furler. I try to go max outhaul and I still cannot flatten the sail. I always end up rolling up a bit to reduce sail when overpowered. (And moving the traveler down)

I balance by reducing. Have not been able to completly flatten the sail adequately.
Somebody needs to invent something to lash the foot to the boom with some kind of quick release in case you need to reef or drop the main.
 
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