Preventing or reducing anchor swinging - Page 5 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 11-16-2007
zz4gta's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,444
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 8
zz4gta is on a distinguished road
That may work, but I think it would be a better idea to just make a riding sail yourself. That way you don't wear out a section of your expensive main. I believe riding sails are cut flat with 2 gradual arcs on the short sides of the triangle to reduce flapping. I know a lot of people make their own. I'd follow someone elses experience over my own though.
__________________
Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #42  
Old 11-16-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I wouldn't use the main as a riding sail...it puts a lot of wear and tear on the clew and leech of the sail, as well as exposing it to UV damage. You're much better off making up a small riding sail. Also, the riding sail is much more effective, the further back on the boat it is... a partially reefed main is too far forward to work effectively as a riding sail.

One other solution to swinging at anchor, besides the more traditional using an anchor bridle, setting a riding sail, or setting two anchors, is to anchor from the stern. Don Jordan, creator of the Jordan Series Drogue, has an interesting article on doing so which you can read here.

While this does really reduce swinging on many boats, for reasons clearly explained in the article, it does pose some problems. First, most boats don't have a decent ground tackle handling system at the stern. Second, the companion way is now exposed to any wind-driven rain. Third, it looks a bit strange to most people.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #43  
Old 07-23-2008
Lancer28's Avatar
I'm the FNG still...
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 397
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Lancer28 is on a distinguished road
UPDATE WOOHOO - I've had a chance to re-test these anchoring techniques. Although your craft may vary, I even had time to do calculations on stress and various anchor rodes, tackle, chains, and anchors.

Now, interestingly enough, these WERE THE SAME results for both the 42' Beneteau I had for the Texas - Cancun trip and my little 30' inland in the Colorado and Wyoming afternoon storms.

OK HANG ON, this is going to be a lot of typing and I have to upload some pictures, so give me a minute, but I should have compiled the perfect anchoring guide for boats 40' and under with less than 6' of freeboard.
__________________
Robert

I reject your reality and substitute my own.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #44  
Old 07-23-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Look forward to it Lancer.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #45  
Old 07-23-2008
Lancer28's Avatar
I'm the FNG still...
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 397
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Lancer28 is on a distinguished road
OK - down to the anchoring results. Now I've been working on this for over a year, but there is still more to be learned. As I do learn more, I'll happily update this thread.

Right now, this is good for average sized monohull sail boats from 40' and below.

ANCHORS ARE IN THESE BASIC CATEGORIES

LIGHT: Danforth, Fortress, West
PLOW: CQR, Delta, Bruce
*EDIT* NEW GENERATION: CQR, Bulwagga, Buelgel, Rocna (STILL TO BE TESTED)

And let’s call the fourth (for now) “OTHER” with the Mushroom, Fisherman, Kedge, Herreshoff, Yachtsman and Grapnel heading up the popularity contest in the group

**I don’t consider Drogues, Drift Socks, Buckets or Warps as anchors here. I have tested and compiled all of this over physical things that connect your boat to the bed of the ocean or lake and stick you there.

A little bit about each one, then we can move on.

Lightweight anchors started with the Danforth Design, which has long flukes and cants to about 33 degrees, but has a pivoting shank so that it folds flat. Because you get a lot of bang for the pound on lightweight anchors, they are popular. Danforth used steel, but the Fortress used a strange mix of aluminum alloys. Not only would the Fortress have two settings of about 45 degrees and 32 for different bottom types, it would also hold about twice as strong as any other lightweight anchor in most conditions in my tests.

It is noteworthy that the Fortress costs about twice as much as the Danforth, however, the load ability per dollar was nearly the same when comparing the weights of anchors to holding power. Also, I didn’t find the “reset” of these anchors too kind when the wind changed. A 180 degree wind shift would let the boat lie ahull to the wind for over 100 yards before they reluctantly dug back in. I didn’t feel safe using these, but keep the Fortress up on deck still for a kedge or secondary on 15’ of chain and 200’ of rode.

Plow anchors are aptly named after their farming cousins and how they work.

The CQR is by far the most popular and costly in this category because of its ability to both have a hinged shank to dig deep and workability in almost all conditions from mud, sand, rocks, plants, unsuspecting sea creatures, and your toes. The hinge seemed to help dig the anchor even deeper as winds grew and loads increased. This was a difficult anchor to handle on deck as it flops around in your hands while seas are rough, but hung from the bow roller well without clanging around. This anchor dragged for 50 yards before resetting in a wind shift. For inland sailors, that could be the difference between your hiding spot in the lee or running aground.

The Bruce is a Scottish design that I believe was developed by some guys looking to anchor some oil prospecting boats in the nasty seas up north. This was all cast steel, the cost was low and the holding strength was almost equal to the CQR. Because it doesn’t flop about, it is easy and noise free on the bow rollers or deck handling in rough seas. It dug in and held strong EVEN ON SCOPES OF 2:1 when I set it in cramped moorings and it held fine in 15-20 mph of wind. It sets FAST AND HARD into rocks, sand, mud, seaweed, and this odd calcite like rock we ran into one night. The Bruce is easier to retrieve than any other plow I tried. It promptly reset in just a couple of feet when the winds shifted.

The Delta shares the blades of the CQR without the hinging action. It handles nicely on deck like the Bruce, sets just as fast and deep, but was more difficult to retrieve in rock and weeds. The cost of the anchor is prohibitive and I didn’t care for it.

Other anchors I only minimally anchored with was the mushroom, Herreshoff, and Grapnel. NONE of these anchors were any good for use aboard a regular vessel barring a few exceptions.

The Mushroom might be a good anchor for slowing drift in a river for fishing. It was lost in rocks. It had no penetration in sand, mud or weeds. The Herreshoff was a loaner. It worked wonderfully in rocks but sucked everywhere else. It was easy to retrieve from the rocks with a trip line. The grapnel I think is a joke by someone who wanted to sell something funny to boaters that was completely useless.


Rodes and anchor sizes: I used synthetic braid for stretch, a foot of coated chain for every foot of boat with appropriate coating and Working load limit, and then the anchor sized according to manufacturer charts.

Weather Conditions: I did not intend this guide to include hurricane strength winds. The highest we observed was 38 Kts for about an hour. This should, therefore, be a good guide for “normal to slightly hairy” conditions.

Your complete anchoring system, or ground tackle depends on several things. AGE is the first. Don’t loose a few hundred bucks overboard or wind up with your boat on the shore because you bought an expensive anchor but tied it on old cheap ass line and chain. This is the “parking brake” for your expensive sailboat!!!!

Second note, is to learn how to properly use thimbles, swivels, static loading charts, and so forth. You cannot use an anchor lashed to a chain and tied to the nylon with a square knot or bowline. The rig should go something like this: Anchor-Shackle-Chain-Shackle-Swivel-Thimble carrying your 3-Strand on an eye splice, then up on deck, thimble or shackle the tail of your anchor rode to the deck or inside your anchor locker with the ring provided (most boats have them in there somewhere). Common sense dictates you should never have a loose end on your anchor line.

If you’re an “all chain” guy, you should go no less than 3:1 scope and always use a snubber line shackled into your chain. The shock loading is incredible with chain and it tore off a Sundowner’s winch out of the deck after seizing the gypsy when we were out testing. (I did chuckle a bit about a 41’ power boat loosing all that gear – money does not equal brains)


I used the formula from the Captains Course for the wind induced drag equations:

D = C * Fa * A * V2

Where:
D= Drag as Pounds
C= Coefficient (humidity, density, etc. were estimated from the book)
Fa= Area Factor (Size and Shape of type of boat) Use 0.75 for a dinghy or low freeboard racing boat, 1.0 for most boats anchored from the bow or stern and presenting no hull to the wind, or 1.5 for anchoring from the bow with a line to angle the hull towards the wind, or a bow anchored that swings into the wind (Kiting)
A= Area as beam times height (no rigging) expressed in sq. ft.
V= Wind Velocity in knots
C= A mysterious number for current and waves in which many publications vary upon, and I used the most common one, which is C= 0.009 since we are using non-metric factors here.

OK – it was hard to make a chart that fit and worked on the board here. A “Lunch Hook” is usually 15 kts, “Overnight anchor” is 30 kts, and let’s call a “Storm Anchor” 40 kts.

Generally, here is a selection of pre-completed factors. If your boat is say, 25 feet, you can simply interpolate the figures to get pretty close. NEVER FORGET Pressure on your ground tackle increases at the SQUARE of wind velocity so it is not very linear. Even a 20’ boat in a gale could see as much as 1600 lbs of force!

20’ boat:
Winds 15, 30, 40 Kts
Factor 0.7, 1.0, 1.5
Force Applied is 45, 180, 360lbs at 15kts
Force Applied is 65, 260, 510lbs at 30kts
Force Applied is 97, 900, 760lbs at 40kts

30’ boat:
Winds 15, 30, 40 Kts
Factor 0.7, 1.0, 1.5
Force Applied is 109, 440, 860lbs at 15kts
Force Applied is 120, 660, 1220lbs at 30kts
Force Applied is 240, 940, 1830lbs at 40kts

40’ boat:
Winds 15, 30, 40 Kts
Factor 0.7, 1.0, 1.5
Force Applied is 180, 740, 1400lbs at 15kts
Force Applied is 260, 1050, 2100lbs at 30kts
Force Applied is 390, 1580, 3100lbs at 40kts


Ok, so why is applied strength important? It not only helps you choose the right anchor or bed to ground into, but also shows you how good your knot tying, splicing or line strength is. Most lines break at the knot, however if you do use the correct splices and knots, your line could separate in the middle, causing sudden breakaway and possible damage to your hull or deck.

Here is another chart I found on Three Strand to help you select the right size and why SCOPE IS SO IMPORTANT:

Three Strand

Inches, Average Breaking Strength, Working Load Limit at 5:1 scope and WLL 9:1 in pounds
3/8 3800 430 770
1/2 6800 760 1360
5/8 10580 1180 2120
3/4 15140 1680 3030


Overall, what’s the best anchor?

Well, that is not too simple to answer; there is not a “best” anchor for all situations, so I ended up carrying a Bruce and a Fortress on my double bow roller, with a foot of chain for each foot of hull length shackled and swiveled to 300’ of 1/2” 3-strand nylon on my 30 foot sailboat. I used the next closest (rounding up) anchor listed on the manufacturer’s chart for selecting the size.

On a 1-10 point scale (a total of 60 points is maximum), here is how I believe they stack up:

CQR
Cost / Value: 3 Set / Reset: 4 Sand: 7 Mud: 7 Seaweed: 6 Rocks: 4
Total: 31

Delta
Cost / Value: 4 Set / Reset: 7 Sand: 7 Mud: 9 Seaweed: 6 Rocks: 5
Total: 44

Fortress
Cost / Value: 3 Set / Reset: 2 Sand: 8 Mud: 7 Seaweed: 3 Rocks: 1
Total: 25

Bruce
Cost / Value: 7 Set / Reset: 10 Sand: 8 Mud: 9 Seaweed: 6 Rocks: 5
Total: 45

Danforth
Cost / Value: 6 Set / Reset: 2 Sand: 5 Mud: 5 Seaweed: 2 Rocks: 1
Total: 21

Mushroom
Cost / Value: 10 Set / Reset: 1 Sand: 2 Mud: 2 Seaweed: 1 Rocks: 1
Total: 17

Herreshoff
Cost / Value: 2 Set / Reset: 6 Sand: 1 Mud: 3 Seaweed: 5 Rocks: 9
Total: 25

Grapnel
Cost / Value: 5 Set / Reset: 1 Sand: 1 Mud: 1 Seaweed: 2 Rocks: 2
Total: 12


So now you should be in the ball park for starting to select your gear! I’ll be sure to add to this thread as I learn more!
__________________
Robert

I reject your reality and substitute my own.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Lancer28; 07-23-2008 at 04:13 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #46  
Old 07-23-2008
Lancer28's Avatar
I'm the FNG still...
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 397
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Lancer28 is on a distinguished road
Effects of scopes on holding power:

I forgot to mention this. In typical places, you're anchoring at about a 3:1 because there are a zillion other people around. This only gives you the holding power of about half that if you were to go to a 7:1 scope.

So, what in the heck is scope? This is the depth of water, and height from said water to your bow roller. Take this measurement and multiply by 2, 3, 4, 5, or 10 to reach the amount of rode you need to pay out to reach a certian scope.

Generally, 2:1 leaves the boat to anchor at a 30 degree angle, 4:1 is about 15 degrees and 10:1 is just 6 degrees.

Why is it important? Because if you're tugging on your anchor from the top, then it will keep unsetting. If you have a long, low line to the anchor, then it just keeps digging in harder and harder and keeps you put. It also is by far safer, as the increased amount of line paid out increases the stretchability of your rode and will lessen shock loading on deck to the cleats and other equipment.

Ok, so if I went to a 10:1 and it dug the XXXX out of the anchor now what happens if I need to leave? Easy, just keep hauling in the line, and most anchors unset very easy when pulled from directly above. If you're older, and can't heave it, I would suggest a winch or motoring forward very slightly.

For example, I use a 5:1 for lunchtime breaks at anchor. I go to 7 at night, and 10 in a storm. 10 has NEVER failed me yet (knock on wood). I've slept soundly at anchor 150 yards off of a shore with the rigging howling and waves tugging on the boat.


HOW to anchor? You showed three choices earlier on in the thread.

That, I found, greatly depends on your boat.

However, I found that on the ones I have tested and sailed on, the general consensus is to anchor off of the stern cleat as a first choice, then use the secondary (diagonal) technique with a line on a rolling hitch to a stern cleat, and finally from the bow, but only if you carry a riding sail, or anchor sail on your backstay (or else you'll probably get dizzy from all of the kiting back and forth).

I hope that helps add to the general knowledge of this thread.
__________________
Robert

I reject your reality and substitute my own.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Lancer28; 07-23-2008 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #47  
Old 07-23-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
A few comments:

First, you're missing an entire class of anchors. The next generation anchors, which include the Rocna, Manson Supreme, Spade, Buegel, Bulwagga, and XYZ aren't even listed. Most of these are far superior to the older, more traditional fluke-type and plow-type anchors that you have listed.

Also, the claw-type anchors, like the Bruce, should be considered a separate category IMHO, since they're really not plow designs. BTW, the genuine Bruce anchor is no longer manufactured.

Second, your description of a rode:

Quote:
The rig should go something like this: Anchor-Shackle-Chain-Shackle-Swivel-Thimble carrying your 3-Strand on an eye splice, then up on deck, thimble or shackle the tail of your anchor rode to the deck or inside your anchor locker with the ring provided (most boats have them in there somewhere).
isn't really all that realistic. Most people with a combination rode have the rode spliced directly to the chain. If that isn't done, the rode can not be used in a rope/chain windlass gypsy without having to manually handle the transition from chain to rope.

Also, the shackles on the anchor rode MUST HAVE THEIR PINS MOUSED WITH WIRE. Not doing so is a huge mistake. That is most likely the reason a previous poster on this thread was able to find a Rocna 25 abandoned.

BTW, the anchor lines are generally nylon, since it has far better elastic and shock absorption characteristics when compared to dacron lines.

It does amaze me at how many boats have undersized, insufficient ground tackle. A good high-end anchor and rode is under $1000 for most boats up to 40', yet these people often skimp on the only thing that might be between their boat surviving and it ending up on the rocks.

Many of the boats I've seen out this season, especially the power boats, have a 12-16 lb. Danforth on 1/2" nylon with 10' of chain or so.... this is about right for a 20' boat, but really pathetic on a 40' power boat that weighs 24,000 lbs. Spend the money on decent ground tackle if you plan on anchoring out at all.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #48  
Old 07-23-2008
Lancer28's Avatar
I'm the FNG still...
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 397
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Lancer28 is on a distinguished road
SD, What I'll do is go and get my hands on a galvenizd Manson and a XYZ to test and add to my list. Initially when I compiled this, it was based on the most common items I found at the marinas.

Thanks for the ideas. I thought the Rocna and Manson were just another version of the plow with a roll bar added on, but now I have more to test out.

I think the Bruce is more of a plow, but it's all perspective I suppose. That could open up this whole can of worms not intended for anchoring threads...

I don't use a windlass on my boat, but that is good information to know about how to set up for a transition if you do so. Good reminder on the mousing too - I forgot to mention that!

The Buegel (I think it is) with its three blades is a neat idea, as no matter how it falls, you'll probably always have a digging surface. Again, if I have a chance to find one to test, I'll add it to the list for sure.

I would imagine that the Rocna, Manson and cousins would all be similar in performance to each other, being spades modified with a roll over bar; which is why I'll just order one of those to play with this summer. I think I'll leave the "Spade" up to someone else, as it looks like a Rocna without a rollbar.

SO let's call this a "To Be Continued" and the XYZ and Manson are on the way!!!
__________________
Robert

I reject your reality and substitute my own.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Lancer28; 07-23-2008 at 04:16 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #49  
Old 07-23-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Actually, the Manson Supreme is a knock-off of the Rocna. The Bulwagga is the three-fluke anchor, which is a PITA to stow. IMHO, it isn't all that great a design, since the design basically makes it waste 1/3 of the fluke surface area.

BTW, the Sailmagazine test from a couple of years ago had the Rocna, Spade and Delta ranked the best out of the anchors tested.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #50  
Old 07-23-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Long Is.
Posts: 329
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
gc1111 is on a distinguished road
My question about your recommendation concerns the use of a swivel in the rode. My understanding is that swivel failure is a very common failure mode - for strength failures. I see no reason for a swivel, but if you must - go for a significantly over-sized one.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
reducing keel/adding fin? abacosol Gear & Maintenance 9 07-01-2007 09:32 PM
The Delicate Art of Preventing Seasickness Liza Copeland Seamanship Articles 0 03-25-2003 07:00 PM
The Delicate Art of Preventing Seasickness Liza Copeland Cruising Articles 0 03-25-2003 07:00 PM
The Delicate Art of Preventing Seasickness Liza Copeland Her Sailnet Articles 0 03-25-2003 07:00 PM
Reducing Propwalk Mark Matthews Seamanship Articles 0 03-28-2002 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:05 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.