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  #51  
Old 07-23-2008
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Oversizing the shackles and swivel are a very good idea.
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  #52  
Old 07-23-2008
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Anchoring

Just to add a little to what has turned out to be on of the best threads I've read.

The line from the winch out to the Rode attached with a Rolling Hitch (or Icicle Hitch) is a "Spring Line" In olden days it was used to train your guns around when at anchor so you weren't helpless.

Most of our modern boats "Sail" at anchor based on design. Its the bow that sails back and forth, so hanging things from the stern doesn't really help. The Spring Line is the best answer as Sd said

Almost no boat is designed to take the really heavy loads of anchoring from the stern. Also there is almost no way to retrieve an anchor from the stern in a Gale.
If you or being pushed onto a lee shore, the last thing you want is to have your bow facing the shore as well, how do you use your engine to help with anchor loads or drop the anchor and rode and motor/sail to safety?

Anchor off bow, use spring line, be prepared for heavy weather.

Now how do you do this in a crowded anchorage, where everyones swinging circles overlap, when the wind picks up to 40 kts and switches 180 degrees?!?

Don
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  #53  
Old 07-23-2008
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Lancer...nice contribution...much that I agree with and much that I don't but all a matter of opinion! I will focus for the moment on the choice of a Delta vs. a CQR...one which I have considerable experience in having had BOTH on my last two boats....and in conditions of extended 20-40kt. plus conditions. The DELTA is the MUCH superior anchor in terms of digging in, in all bottoms which I attribute to the heavily weighted tip AND it is much less prone to dragging in full gale+ conditions. We had to switch our 65lb. CQR to a combination short (50ft.) chain to nylon rode as the strain of an all chain rode being pulled bar tight (10:1 scope) jerked the CQR right out and CQR's are extremely difficult to re-set in heavy conditions. After dragging on one in 25kts. in the BVI's one night we had to motor around the anchorage all night after a dozen attempts to re-set in those conditions failed.(This on a charter boat with no other options!) When we switched out our 65lb drag prone CQR to the nylon rode, performance improved...but we had MUCH better performance from out 55lb Delta on all chain which became our primary. We dragged 3 times in 6 years of almost continuous anchoring on the Delta...and two of those times were my fault for anchoring in Debris rather than the bottom!
I have a lot of confidence in the Delta and equally important it always sets quickly and resets quickly in a shift. I don't have ANY personal experience with the new generation anchors but based on what I've seen with friends and testing results I would buy one of those today if starting from scratch.
Also...I like the big Fortress's as a secondary storm and primary "jello mud"
anchor is it is easy to deploy and holds like the dickens in one direction and in mud.

Dquack... a spring line is a line from dock to boat with both a forward and aft line spring being used to hold the boat in place along the dock. A snubber line is a line from BOW CLEAT or SAMPSON POST (NEVER...EVER Winch/WINDLASS!) to anchor rode. A Bridle is a line led from the anchor rode to the stern of the boat to cause it to lie somewhat sideways to the weather and to reduce "sailing" . Bridles can be run to a genny winch for adjustment bu should then be cleated off. They should not be used in heavy weather as they increase loads on the anchor significantly though this may be compensated for somewhat by increasing scope. You asked "Now how do you do this in a crowded anchorage, where everyones swinging circles overlap, when the wind picks up to 40 kts and switches 180 degrees?!?" The simple answer is that when a big blow is coming, you and everyone else in the anchorage let out their rodes and keeps an anchor watch. And as a practical matter, swinging circles do not present ANY problem as in stronger winds clocking around the compass, all boats lie the same way VERY quickly...even catamarans. You also need to understand that the clockng around 180+ degrees is a gradual process taking place over hours as a low passes through. Swinging circles are MUCH more problematic in light winds and tides/currents where different boats respond at different times based on windage, keel configuration, number of hulls and displacement. No one worries about sailing around at anchor in a big blow..you worry about dragging and someone else dragging in to you. Any time gale force is predicted, we keep an anchor watch all night if in a crowded harbor. I don't have Halekai's confidence in the anchoring techniques of other!
BTW...I totally agree with you on stern anchoring.
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  #54  
Old 07-23-2008
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Anchor Spring Line

I checked on my poor memory to make sure...

This is a copy taken directly from a section of a page from another source. Not sure of the author,

"ANCHOR SPRING LINES:

Often, you anchor where the Wind and the Water work at cross-purposes. Some anchorages may have a strong current running through them, or sometimes experience a strong surge or groundswell. Even a smaller current or surge can set your boat to rocking - and you know how uncomfortable a rolling boat can be. A really fast current or big swell can make the harbor untenable.

Fortunately, there's an easy way to alleviate all that by the use of a forward quarter spring line to the anchor rode, a technique called "springing the rode".

To understand how Anchor Spring Lines work, it will be helpful to visualize the conditions that call for it. Suppose you're anchored in a harbor where the wind is blowing from the east. Lying to her anchor, your boat will point east into the wind. Now, suppose there's a surge rolling into the harbor from the north (or a current running South). It could be a ground swell generated by some distant storm, or just a remnant of seas outside the harbor bending around the headland. Whatever the source, waves from the north will strike your boat on the port beam and she'll rock-n-roll."

Anyway, there are "spring lines" for docking and "spring lines" for anchoring. I think I originally read it in an old Horatio Hornblower Book (one of my favorites).

Don
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  #55  
Old 07-24-2008
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Important note for ground tackle breaking questions - did I mention strength of the parts? If not, here is what I've picked up:

-Oversize by 25% of the max load you expect on chain, shackles and swivels.

-NEVER ever buy "just what fits in the bow roller". Buy it as big as it has to be. That $15.00 piece of shackle or swivel can cost you hundreds when you need to dive for or replace that anchor.

-Don't cleat off to anything you use for sailing, like winches, small cleats for sheets, etc.

-Oh and I did forget to mention mousing off with wire. I found the anchor last summer in the beach probably from that same issue and happily laughed about it on here with the guys..
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Last edited by Lancer28; 07-24-2008 at 01:27 AM.
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  #56  
Old 07-24-2008
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DQ...I think Gord May is playing fast and loose with the term since he is the one that wrote what you copied. It is nevertheless descriptive of where the line is affixed to the boat.
Both websters and wiki define spring lines as to docks only and wiki has a nice diagram here:Mooring (watercraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Can't find any source other than Gord with this use.
No big deal but would be interesting to know if ANYONE can find a sailing related source like Bowditch (don't have one handy!) which mentions springs in anything other than a docking use as I do like to be correct in my usage.
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  #57  
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Anchor Spring Line

Cameraderie,

I was going to get some other sources, but when I went to just "Google" and typed in "Anchor Spring Line", there were so many references to Anchor Spring Lines, that it seemed unnecessary.
In over 30 years of extensive sailing, I've never heard it called anything else.

Seems like I've spent the last few days bucking the tide, I wish you all well.

Out,

Don
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  #58  
Old 07-24-2008
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Geez...a bit sensitive are we Don? BTW...the FIRST thing I did when you brought up anchor spring lines was to check google. Indeed, I did so tonight and in the first 50 return links for Anchor Spring Line there was not ONE reference to a spring line actually being used on an anchor other than Gord's! Perhaps that is why you didn't cite any other than Gord May's use of the term. The only other mention of Spring line and anchor together was for a rubber snubber "spring" to be used on a line to a Para-anchor.

If you're gonna be sensitive to feedback on the things you write...the internet is not a particularly friendly place. I will happily retract my springline definition if you care to back yours up with an "authoritative source". Since I've already given you Websters and Wiki and can cite at least 10 other on line marine glossaries with the same definition...I think the ball is in your court. As I said...no big deal...but you seem to think it is.
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  #59  
Old 07-25-2008
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While GordMay uses "Anchor Spring Line" to describe a snubber or bridle, I can't think of anyone else who does or didn't use the term without some reference to GordMay's writing. I believe Cam is correct that "spring lines" are generally taken to refer to lines connecting a boat to a pier or other fixed shore structure, not an anchor.
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Old 07-25-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
DQ...I think Gord May is playing fast and loose with the term since he is the one that wrote what you copied. It is nevertheless descriptive of where the line is affixed to the boat.
Both websters and wiki define spring lines as to docks only and wiki has a nice diagram here:Mooring (watercraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Can't find any source other than Gord with this use.
No big deal but would be interesting to know if ANYONE can find a sailing related source like Bowditch (don't have one handy!) which mentions springs in anything other than a docking use as I do like to be correct in my usage.
de Kerchove's International Maritime Dictionary defines "Spring" thusly:

1. A shore mooring line diagonal to the keel and exerting a force, when power is applied to it, both in the direction of the keel and at right angles to it. It is therefore used for moving a vessel alongside quay or pier ahead or astern, breasting her in at the same time. also called spring line, spring rope
2. Offshore line or hawser made fast at one end to an anchor cable, the other end to the ship's quarter, by which the vessel is handled broadside to the anchor. Also called spring line, quarter mooring.
3. A crack running obliquely through any part of a wooden mast or yard, which renders it unsafe to carry the usual sail thereon. The spar is then said to be sprung.

(all other definitions with spring involved conform substantially with the above definitions according to the usually reliable de Kerchove.)
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