Running downwind at high speed, how to turn away?

[CapnHand]

May the wind at your back not be your own.

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Assuming a furling jib...bring it down to a smaller size. Then sheet the mainsail in to centerline while the jib continues to carry you down wind. Now reef the mainsail. Then turn to your next point of sail.

Umm... Cam in your post #3... you don't mention steering or turning at all... just sheeting in... which on many boats is pretty tough to do in higher wind speeds, without risking a gybe... and an accidental gybe at higher wind speeds is a good way to lose the rig.

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Rockter...Nah..I just push the button on my electric winch and transform into a power boat!! (g)

Actually...in heavy wind I do EXACTLY what I said above in post #3 and it works. I have never not been able to bring the main to center ...you simply have to steer the boat to a position where it is ABOUT to jibe an then reel it in a bit as you fall off again and repeat as necessary. No power winch or great strength needed.... But opinions seem to vary so I guess you have to try what works on your boat.

Since you are closer than me...will you give these guys a kick in the arse...they are off to a rough start!!

[sailaway21]

Rockter is also sailing a full keel boat with the rudder directly abaft the prop. He will, with that set-up, generate turning moment. The faster the boat is running down-wind the less effect the prop is going to have on the rudder; that is until you begin to round up, losing way, and then she'll start forcing the stern around.

I am not against having the motor running for possible assistance, but i do feel that you'll generally have your hands full with working the sails. I'd say that Cam's procedure seems about the safest.

[6string]

I sail dinghies so am not so familiar with a keel boat with power although I have done some charters and lake Michigan sailing. As I stated in an earlier post I would like to be able to handle this situation with sail. I do agree that once head to wind the motor would be of a big benefit to keep head to wind while reefing the main.

Would you be able to use the engine in reverse to slow boat speed before making a maneuver if you were uncomfortable with speed? I doubt the engine in reverse would overcome your forward momentum but it should slow you down and help add some control ? ? ? ?

Jeff

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by 6string

Would you be able to use the engine in reverse to slow boat speed before making a maneuver if you were uncomfortable with speed? I doubt the engine in reverse would overcome your forward momentum but it should slow you down and help add some control ? ? ? ?

Jeff

Most larger sailboats have issues with prop walk, which is exaggerated in reverse and would possibly make the situation worse.

[Rockter]

I think that 58 kt would simply overwhelm the prop firces.

Mine is a humble 2-blade.

[Lancer28]

I think the engine in reverse would be a bad idea for several reasons, but one of my top ones could be a potential additional force on the sails and rig.

Today I finally had a chance to go and try this. I used my dinghy so if I broke something I wouldn't pay 10,000 for a new mast and rigging if I broke anything.

Here is what I did - I let the jib right out and it was blowing almost directly in front of the boat, no power left there. The main was pinned to the spreader, and I GENTLY turned out away from the side the boom was pointing to. there was a not-so-comfy heel like a lurch where I thought "here we gooo overrrr!" and then as soon as the main passed the 90 degree point it started to luff because I could pull the main off of the spreaderswith more helm.

I was now on a near direct port tack on a beam reach or what those salty dogs call "sailing free", except I left the sheet out to stall that sail too.

Now the problem started again, as the wind snatched my hull and wanted to push me back downwind as I lost steerageway, so I set to a more heave-to position with the jib alone and left the main to flap.

Results:

I noticed there is a huge lurch of heel which would make the oldest sailor need to change his spongebob squarepants boxers afterwards as soon as you start the maneuver. I was in 32kts of wind. It could be pretty bad in anything more that that, as I barely shifted weight fast enough to hang on.

Also - you can push the boat over, but it will take a second person to hold you on course and keep the jib loosely sheeted in for a heave-to while the other worked on reefing the main.

As soon as the main was down, I imagine you could jump into the sewer and grab your storm jib and get that going in less than 5 minutes time.

There is a lot of potential chafe or tearing on the mainsail from all of the hammering around on the spreaders, so I would think it best to rotate out and away from the spreaders, in perhaps a 45 to 60 degree track into the wind.

[Hartley18]

Lancer, that lurch you mention is the biggest problem - if you get hit by a wave then, the boat will broach, 'cause as the boat heels to leeward in the turn, it's easy for the rudder to stall and then you are most definitely in the drink.

Methinks the best idea is to haul the main in and to try and reef it or get it down before doing the turn. And try to turn on the top or back of the wave.. Your thoughts?

[Windhorse]

This thread reminds me when we had an
IP38 several years ago and were heading
back from St Thomas to Bermuda. It was
early in the season- early April when you can
really get socked.
We thought we had a comfortable lead on
a developing gale and were closing
on Bermuda late at night when the weather
overtook us. A preventer somehow got
jammed and we could not take in sail
before it was too late- we were
screwed.
We had no choice but to run with the
gale with too much sail out. Wherever
the wind was going we were. The boat
speed reached 10 or 11 knots and was
heeled way over. Now for an IP, thats pretty
fast. A few waves pooped us. The
pressure on the sails was enormous
- no way you were going to turn into the wind
or center the main or start reefing. The
engine- what for, you wouldn't dare turn in
those condition unless you wanted a knockdown
and maybe even loose the rig. Release the jib-
good grief, at night with rough seas and
40+ knot winds, besides shredding the jib,
and that still would leave the problem of the
main.

Anyway the wind finally calmed down enough
to take in sail and we made it to St Georges
for Dark and Stormies. But I haven't read anything here
that would have answered the original
question of what to do when you get caught running
with too much sail out. Although at night, we now
sail with a lot less sail out!

[HoffaLives]

Hmmm, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but it seems to me that what is described is really an emergency situation, where human safety is at risk. In that case, sails and rig are secondary to maintaining control and keeping the boat on her feet. I don't recall the specifics of the boat in question, but in that situation I would blow the genoa sheets (although the real concern is the main) and cut the aft line holding the mainsail to the boom (loose footed main on our boat). I would then drop the halyard and let the flogging mess pile up where it may. There's a chance it could be saved with minor repairs. But none of the sails are coming down as long as there is pressure on them. I would rather risk losing the main rather than the boat, rig, or a passenger. Good grief, remember the priorities. At those wind speeds one could try and be classy and try and bring her about, but what if it didn't work? It's not like you will likely get another try. Meanwhile you are out of control and hoping it doesn't get worse. I would get rid of the engine (mainsail) and worry about the bank account later, at least I would be there to cry while I wrote the cheque. That's what insurance is for. I recently had a situation where I blew out my main and although it was badly shredded ear to ear it only cost me $350.00 to get it sewed up again. At almost 60 knots of wind I wouldn't think twice about cutting a sail if it would give me helm again.