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  #11  
Old 10-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
George is bang on.... Boat that go to sheets and guys are generally those whose spinnakers are too large for end-for-end pole gybes.
I think you mean lazy sheets, by definition, to fly a symmetric spinnaker, you trim the pole with a line called a guy (aft guy) and the free corner of the spinnaker with a line called a sheet. When these lines are not in use they are often called sheets, a second set of them are called the "lazy" sheets.
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
I think you mean lazy sheets, by definition, to fly a symmetric spinnaker, you trim the pole with a line called a guy (aft guy) and the free corner of the spinnaker with a line called a sheet. When these lines are not in use they are often called sheets, a second set of them are called the "lazy" sheets.
We could get into a discussion on semantics, but here's my take on this:

On the pole side you'll have the active guy (the afterguy, if you like), the other (standby) line on that side would be the lazy sheet, as you say.

On the clew side, you'll have the active sheet, with the standby line on that side being the lazy guy, as that's the one that the bowman is going to clip into the pole end on the next gybe.

Naturally there may well be different takes on this.
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  #13  
Old 10-15-2007
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Might be a west coast thing. We’ve always called the unloaded sheet and guy “lazy”. Yes, we shortened the proper name from “Spinnaker After Guy” down just to “guy”. Foreguy is still foreguy, but sometimes shorted to “downhaul”. “Spinnaker topping lift” is shortened to just “topper”. Might not be correct to Hoyle, but we all seem to understand each other on the boat, which after-all is the most important thing.

When we’re dip-pole gibing, we first trip the loaded guy resulting in the trimmers now free-flying the sail on both sheets. We then dip the pole under headstay and connect it to the (soon to be former) lazy guy. The last step is to square the pole/trim the (now new loaded) guy and release the (now) new lazy sheet. For me, the limiting factor on the end-for-end gybe is the ability of the forepeak (or mast) man to push out the but end of the pole and reattach it to the spinnaker ring on the mast car. This is a function of boat size, sail size, wind speed, and age of the forepeak man. On my 34’ mast head rigged boat in S.F. Bay, we dip pole. I end-for-end gybe on a 36’ and a 38’ fractional rigged boat.

Last edited by GeorgeB; 10-15-2007 at 08:15 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2007
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Talking

hi hi, thanks for all the replys

i was thinking i need 2 sheets and 2 guys (one lazy on both depending on which tack you are on)

but i was wondering why do i really need to use the guys (not the lazy sheet that would be converted into a guy if i had no separate dedicated guys), cuz it would make my life much easier.
i guess it makes sense to me that you probably can't get as much leverage pulling back the lazy sheet as a guy from as far back on the boat as the spin winch would be, so if thats true then i guess i would have to use dedicated guy lines.

if i wasn't going to tack w/ the spin, and was just going to run as far as i can and then drop (long offshore races, around the pins) then can i get by w/ just using the lazy sheet as a guy and not have to deal w/ dedicated guy lines?

btw, pls confirm, that if i do end up having to use the dedicated guy lines, then i have to run these between the shrouds and the mast and thru a block from the spin (ie some block attached to the toe rail?)

i can see already this has the potential for a major weekend screwup!
wife will love it
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2007
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If you actually intend to sail one gybe, then douse and reset after the tack change, then you won't need the extra set as you won't be doing a dip-pole gybe. But while in theory that sounds plausible, not many do so - especially in a race regardless of the course config.

On a smaller boat it would be a bit easier as the sail is smaller and easier to get on board and quicker to repack. On a larger boat those jobs could be considered more difficult (certainly more time consuming and more work) than the occasional gybe maneuver. This is, of course, considering the wind conditions, the boat,crew, and sail size.

I suppose on a larger boat such as yours, if you're just cruising it would be a way to avoid the extra crewmember and get from A to B with less risk of a mishap.

We used to run our "guys" from a toerail block near the shrouds directly to a winch, and the sheets to a toerail block on the quarter then to another winch. In heavier air we'd add twingers to the sheets to discourage the sail from getting into oscillations. Can't imagine when or why you'd want to run guys between the shrouds and the mast.
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  #16  
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Talking

yeah i was thinking that thru and i guess if you are going to use the lazy guy to pull the chute down into the cabin, you need to have it outside the shrouds. i think i ve got it thought thru tho, i will need to use 2 guys and 2 sheets cuz if we do decide to change tack, i m thinking we can't do it easily using just 2 sheets.

thank you all very much for helping me think it thru. now for the fun/screams/ yelling!
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2007
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Great video, Moonfish! Thanks for sharing it.
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  #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkeith View Post
yeah i was thinking that thru and i guess if you are going to use the lazy guy to pull the chute down into the cabin, you need to have it outside the shrouds. ......
FWIW you actually use the lazy sheet to pull the spinnaker into the boat, the lazy guy is the line attached to the guy, and usually you release both these lines when you blow the guy shackle at the pole to begin the sail takedown...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
FWIW you actually use the lazy sheet to pull the spinnaker into the boat, the lazy guy is the line attached to the guy, and usually you release both these lines when you blow the guy shackle at the pole to begin the sail takedown...
yes that makes more sense, thank you. 'the lazy guy is the line attached to the guy' ? i thought the lazy guy was attached to the lazy sheet spin shackle
hmmmm maybe i m all screwed up...
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkeith View Post
yes that makes more sense, thank you. 'the lazy guy is the line attached to the guy' ? i thought the lazy guy was attached to the lazy sheet spin shackle
hmmmm maybe i m all screwed up...
You're not screwed up. The lazy guy is attached to the lazy sheet at the clew.

As I see it, you have two choices:
1. Separate sheets and guys - ie. two ropes per clew, usually connected together at the snap shackle. Our original setup was like this, but the extra ropes got in the way, so I changed it to
2. Spinnaker sheets only - one rope per clew - with 'tweakers' running through the old guy blocks near the shrouds. Under this scenario, the lazy sheet becomes the guy by hauling the 'tweaker' in.

FWIW, racing dinghys often use 'reaching hooks' to change the lazy sheet into a guy, but this won't work on a big boat..

--Cameron

Last edited by Classic30; 10-17-2007 at 12:07 AM.
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