spinnaker guys

[mrkeith]

probably a silly question, but......
why do people use spinnaker guys? why not just use the lazy sheet to pull the
pole back? why complicate the matter by having 2 extra lines (guys)? i would think that you could get by and just use the lazy sheet as the guy for the pole and then when you jib, use the other lazy sheet as the guy. is there something i m missing here?
thanks a bunch

[Idiens]

Learning experience: When you have bent the pole on one of the shrouds, the guys begin to make a lot of sense for pole control - before and after the Spi has been raised and lowered.

[sanctuarysam]

Originally Posted by Idiens

Learning experience: When you have bent the pole on one of the shrouds, the guys begin to make a lot of sense for pole control - before and after the Spi has been raised and lowered.

uhm...if you are bending a pole on your shrouds, i'm thinking you are flying the kite incorrectly..if you had said forestay, that might make more sense. guys are just a redundant safety and control feature..as are twings..

[sailingfool]

Referring to the "sheet" that trims the pole aft as the aft guy, the benefit of an aft guy that is trimmed to the midsection of the boat is that it results in much less load on the line due to a wider deflection angle on trim block, and it also doesn't have to bend around the shrouds. When the pole is trimmed somewhat aft it really doesn't matter where the aft guy turns, midsection or at the stern doesn't matter so much. But when the pole is forward, say almost to the forestay, the load on the aft guy goes up enormously - the load on an aft guy trimmed to the the max beam rail may be heavy, but should be adjustable. One trimmed to the stern may have so much load and friction (from the shrouds) that you simply cannot trim it...The load on the stern trimmed guy would be about three times as much as the load on a midships-located guy, just due the the higher (close to 180 degrees) angle of deflection of the stern located block.

You can have the benefit of working with only two sheets by using tweaker blocks on the sheets. Trim the tweaker block on the line serving as the aft guy to change its trim location to the midships toerail. As you get much over 32 feet lazy sheets become the more common solution. See http://www.harken.com/rigtips/spinnaker.php for more specifics.

[mrkeith]

As you get much over 32 feet lazy sheets become the more common solution. See http://www.harken.com/rigtips/spinnaker.php for more specifics.

hmmmm. i think that link says bigger boats use guys, not sheets? it would be easier for me to just use the sheets, but my boat is 40ft so i m guessing i should use guys? the excess load and angle comment above makes a lot of sense to me . i just didnt want to deal w/ the extra lines/etc w/ a short crew

[Moonfish]

We just completed a "Jibing with a Spinnaker Pole" video with Forespar. It might help answer your questions. Here is the YouTube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFUnV2BEwH4

[mrkeith]

Originally Posted by Moonfish

We just completed a "Jibing with a Spinnaker Pole" video with Forespar. It might help answer your questions. Here is the YouTube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFUnV2BEwH4

nice video, didnt really talk about the use of guys and sheets tho did it?

[GeorgeB]

If you are doing end-for-end gibing, you can forgo the spinnaker guys. Use guys when doing dip pole gybes.

[sailingfool]

Originally Posted by mrkeith

As you get much over 32 feet lazy sheets become the more common solution. See http://www.harken.com/rigtips/spinnaker.php for more specifics.

hmmmm. i think that link says bigger boats use guys, not sheets? it would be easier for me to just use the sheets, but my boat is 40ft so i m guessing i should use guys? the excess load and angle comment above makes a lot of sense to me . i just didnt want to deal w/ the extra lines/etc w/ a short crew

When not in use, the two lines used to trim a spinnaker are generically referred to as "sheets". If you use two sets of lines to trim a spinnaker, the second set of lines is referred to as lazy sheets.

When you are actually flying a symmetric spinnaker, the line trimming the pole back is call the "guy" or more specifically the the "aft guy". The line to the other corner of spinnaker is the "sheet". If you are employingg lazy sheets, the unused guy is the "lazy guy" and the unused sheet is the "lazy sheet".

[Faster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

If you are doing end-for-end gibing, you can forgo the spinnaker guys. Use guys when doing dip pole gybes.

George is bang on.... Boat that go to sheets and guys are generally those whose spinnakers are too large for end-for-end pole gybes.

Using double sheets and guys allows the pole to be dip - poled, and gybed without any sail loading (if its done right - the sail is flown through the gybe "pole-less").

Another advantage of doing this is that the guy can be run to a more or less permanently "twinged" position (forward around max beam) to improve the stability of the pole position and avoid some interference with the lifelines when the apparent wind is forward.

At 40 feet, I'd say you are a good candidate for using double sheets and guys, but be aware that a good (symmetrical spinnaker) dip pole gybe requires more crew and good coordination to pull off.