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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
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  #21  
Old 10-23-2007
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SEMIJim will become famous soon enough SEMIJim will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
Sounds like you do not have an inboard jib track. Is that correct?
Correct.

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Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
If so, install an inboard track (close to the cabin side)
Don't see how that would work for anything larger than a #3. That would put the track inside the shrouds.

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Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
You should ensure you know how to determine proper jib block positioning, there have been a few threads on this subject in the past month.
I think I have a pretty good handle on that. I should've moved the blocks up to the forward tracks. Tho I probably would've ended-up with them all the way back, in those tracks, anyway.

It would've also helped if we'd had time to fine-tune a bit before the race. One of the things I did before the last race was test the fairlead blocks position by having the helmsman point her up until the upper or lower telltales started rising, and adjusting the block until they all luffed at the same time. Having the top batten in the main wouldn't have hurt. Taking some time with the mainsheet man to review How It All Works would've helped. In retrospect: Since we were going to start way late, anyway, I should've insisted we just take the time and do it right. Another lesson learned .

Jim
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  #22  
Old 10-23-2007
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SEMIJim will become famous soon enough SEMIJim will become famous soon enough
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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
I congratulate and commend you for going out and racing last weekend! You have turned a corner. Not only did you go out in snotty conditions that previously would have kept you tied up at the dock, but you are now looking for techniques to improve your skill set rather than writing off the whole experience as an exercise in survival. Bravo for you!
Thanks for the kind words, George .

I once read that even cruisers should race, as racing teaches skills that may make a critical difference when the chips down. Now I know, first-hand, what is meant by that.

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Both sails will offer you a better balanced sail plan.
That was my understanding.

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Old sails are baggy and will bag even more so in strong winds. Iíd replace them if the opportunity presents itself. Arimids and Pentex are stronger and less stretchy with the added benefit of being much lighter (ďa pound aloft is worth ten pounds on deckĒ).
We have new for everything but the #3. And we might be able to get a good deal on a Pentex #3.

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Dacron halyards and sheets also stretch. For example, we run T-900 and Spectra instead of Dacron.
The skipper of the J36 we've crewed on suggested we replace the main halyard with something he called "12-strand." Less stretchy. He offered to put the shackle on for us .

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Donít worry about not having anemometer, there are plenty of ways that your boat will tell you how strong the wind is and what you should do.
Oh, I'm not worried about it, I just think it'd be a cool thing to have.

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Remember that in strong winds, there is more air blowing by your boat than your sails can convert to forward speed so your goal in trimming is to make them as flat as possible, allowing them to shed the portion of wind that is making you heel over on your ear while converting the rest into the best possible boat speed for the conditions.
Yup. Knew that. Just trying to figure out what I could have done to bleed-off a bit more.

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Sail selection: Some people say that they can carry a 155 in 25kts of true wind. Iím not one of them. I have multiple sails all designed to be optimized at a certain wind speeds.
The PO of our boat was one of those who would fly a 155 in 25 kt winds. He insists she'll handle it with panache. I dunno. As I noted earlier: I'm thinking if we could pick up that Pentex #3, then maybe have the heavy 155 cut down to 135... My thinking is that the light #1 is good only to 12 kts. Above that we could fly the #2 with a full main, up to probably somewhere around 17-20 kts. Then reef and we ought to be good up to 25 kts or so before we have to think about the #3.

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Move the jib sheet to the outside track.
We have only outside tracks. A short one up around the beam, a longer one aft of the beam that reaches back to the beginning of the cockpit area.

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Fix your tensioner if it currently doesnít do its job.
The tensioner is currently out-of-commission, unfortunately. We really could've used it Saturday.

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A clew lifting off of the boom puts belly in the main so I use a piece of spectra webbing (with Velcro) to help hold the clew on the boom.
Ah! Yes, the clew was lifted off the boom. I knew that was an issue, but didn't know how to fix it. Now I know. I'll have to get me something I can easily put thru the clew to pull it down.

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
All of a sudden, this is starting to look too complicated ...
Not at all, George. Once you understand what each of the individual bits do, how they interact, what effect they have on sail shape, what sail shape means wrt the way the wind acts on them, the concept of CE, etc., it's really not so bad. Now, being in a race and remembering all of it at the time, and on time, that's probably going to take a while .

I didn't address all of your comments, but I certainly read them. I think I'm going to print them and stick that in my copy of Sail and Rig Tuning. Thanks for taking the time to comment so extensively and in such detail.

Jim
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  #23  
Old 10-23-2007
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Jim,

Not sure how hard it would be on your boat to do this, but I put some 2' tracks on the cabin top of my Jeanneau 30. I use these with my 110. This allows me to have about an 8* sail trim. Pretty tight by any std. Allowing me to get within 30-45 true with out an issue. I then have some 6-7' long tracks along the base of my cabin, outside the shrouds, which come down alongside the cabin for fairly tight sheeting on my 142, ie my current biggest head sail. I have pics of the cabin top if you want to see how I did this.

The only real issue I have at the moment, is the winch's are a bit small on the cabin top. Hopefully I will address this with some bigger ones, or get ST;s for the cockpit/big genoa winches, and put the non tailing ones on the cabin top, and save the 15's for halyards etc on the inside of the cabin top.

marty
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  #24  
Old 10-23-2007
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Being as MY boat was the one tenuki was on.
haha, actually I was talking about another friend with a cape dory 28, but ya, we did do that on your boat with a spare line too, I forgot.
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Last edited by tenuki; 10-23-2007 at 09:53 PM.
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  #25  
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From the looks of the forecast, saturday will be anything but needing a reef day, Probably wish I had some carbon sails with a 155 or bigger genoa! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR just when I was getting used to 20knot days!
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  #26  
Old 10-23-2007
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Basics

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
Correct.

Don't see how that would work for anything larger than a #3. That would put the track inside the shrouds.

...
But you'd like to learn, right? Inboard tracks are essential for racing - your PO was a dummy. The basic trim guideline for a 150% should be a few inches off the lower spreader - you won't get anywhere near that close with rail sheeting. It's even worse with a small jib that you are trimming to the fattest part of the boat - you'll give away 5-10 degrees of pointing. In fact we run the sheet for our small jib inside the uppers, and trim the clew so it touches the lowers, can't get that sail any closer to the wind than that. Inboard sheeting is a racing basic. Blt2ski describes the basic layout, although if the clew of your small jib(s) is off the deck you may not need the short tracks forward on the cabintop, as it will trim to the front of the aft track.

I did a quick search and couldn't find a good writeup on inboard sheeting although I noted even the Caliber cruiser mentions the performance benefits of inboard sheeting in their brouchure (http://www.caliberyacht.com/Download...s_Brochure.pdf.
page 8). The P30 in the attached pic has the right idea.
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Check Me On This, Please?-1690281_2.jpg  

Last edited by sailingfool; 10-24-2007 at 12:18 AM.
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  #27  
Old 10-23-2007
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Here are pics of what I have done to cabin top....

Back part of cabin


front part of cabin


Looking forward from cockpit

on edit, here is a top view of tracks taken a few months back a bit grundgy! the others I took earlier today



Marty

Last edited by blt2ski; 10-23-2007 at 11:21 PM. Reason: ad pic!
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  #28  
Old 10-23-2007
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Sweet, now that is an inboard track and not a common setup. I'd love to have a blade that trimmed like that, although it's an interesting problem about how to trim the sheets up there. Maybe a nice set of Lewmar Ocean STs for Christmas...would these be too big or just right http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/lewma...spagenameZWDVW ?

Last edited by sailingfool; 10-23-2007 at 11:45 PM.
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  #29  
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If I did them, the non ST 40's on the cockpit combing would be on the outside cabin top, and them for the blade.

marty
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2007
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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
If I did them, the non ST 40's on the cockpit combing would be on the outside cabin top, and them for the blade.

marty
Hmmm..if your current primaries are 40s, then these ST44s would make a nice upgrade, you might message the seller ... no one will buy them at $1,800, Defender is selling them new for 1/3 less.
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