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  #61  
Old 01-09-2008
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Wearing

Fascinating!
Whoever (Sailingdog?) who used the word "wearing" was correct, it's wearing when done instead of tacking. I've used the manouver now and again when it seemed the better way to go.
A bit over 40 years ago a friend was beating up the entrance to Wellington Harbour (NZ) in an 11m cutter, a handy and - normally - well mannered ship. The breeze picked up quite suddenly as it often does there, and the wind against tide chop got quickly vicious. Nearing the Western side of the channel, my friend tried to tack, but the chop knocked his boat back on her original tack. He paid off, got way on again and had another try - same result. After missing stays for the third time he was running out of room and decided to wear. The boat came round ok, but it was too late; she touched, hung up and although the crew got safely ashore, she went to pieces on the bricks. My friend was adamant that he should have worn ship after the first time she missed stays.
Since then I've worn ship on a 9m sloop, a 12m gaff schooner, a 13m bermudian cutter and a 16m gaff mainsail ketch, always in conditions when I'd rather be reading about it by the fire, but then it's a heavy weather tactic. Sometimes I've been well crewed, other times short-handed or solo.
As many of you have noted, the trick seems to be getting (and keeping) the boom under control. Running off for the gybe I think actually takes some of the weight and stress off. Yes, keep your head down - I've worn a boom a couple of times. (Waddya mean, you can tell?!) Any deck work in heavy weather requires more effort and thought for safety; let's not forget "one hand for the ship and one for yourself".
I'm not too sure why one of you was so concerned about damage to a brother-in-law, but then I've got a heap of 'em so can afford to lose the odd one overboard.
I'd never recommend to any one that they used their headsail roller furling for reefing. The stress on the gear from a partly rolled sail is enormous.
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  #62  
Old 01-09-2008
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sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Yes, wearing ship is a tactic I will resort to if I've been a lazy bastard and not hoisted the mainsail, since under jib alone, my boat has serious issues tacking. This is the opposite of what the main theme of this thread is about, which is tacking instead of gybing... where wearing is gybing instead of tacking.
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  #63  
Old 01-09-2008
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Sanctimonious?

[quote=Valiente;247284]Excuse me, but where is suggesting that someone unsure of how to gybe their boat should consider crewing on a similarly sized race boat "sanctimonious"? Are you sure you have the right word?


Using the common, literary definition of self-righteousness, I think I got it about right.
When Giul suggests Hoffa should consider a different sport (which he tries to soften by using the term "metier"), and states: "Do us all a favour, go get some lessons, get some classes, do something to improve your skills" and you say you agree and add the snarky rhetorical question: "You own a 36 foot boat?" that all sounds a little sanctimonious to me.
Don't misunderstand me, the substantive comments that both you and Giul offer are very informative and worthwhile. It's the attitude that I believe needs some work. And not just from some misplaced political correctness -- rather, I am concerned that those who might benefit from your wisdom will be so turned off by the harsh 'tude that they simply ignore it or discount it.
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  #64  
Old 01-10-2008
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Well, this thread is the perfect example of "how to" from simple question couple of guys (to me arrogant and "self righted") can make out of sailing bad taste horror!! I experience that on my own skin, as in the past the same jerks embarrassed my sailing and professional reputation. I tried to calm down there comments and treat it seriously, but it did not work. They were yapping, yapping and yapping. I simply stopped reading comments they make on this forum as those comments are embarrassing to everyone but them, and have no value of any friendly advices, accept to show how "smart" they are in there own eyes.
So, let it be for them, for us it is important to share as decent info about sailing as we can provide, based on our knowledge and experience.
Here is my three pennies:
1. Take a look at Giu broken boom. To me it is evidently bad set-up of the sheets to the boom as well as luck of attention from the skippers side. Notice that the main sheet block is looking towards the mast not the stern - in deed it will break any boom due to the extreme strength directed wrong way during jibing. So, it is how you set your sheets/hardware in relation to the boom, sail power (reefing?), boom vang, preventer, placement of your crew on the deck and the skippers perfection and overseeing possible problems. All those aspects play its own role in choosing to do jibing or not, independent of the weather conditions. Either jibing or tacking is not advice if you are not prepared for it in every meaning. However, if you are prepared either one you should consider just changing the course with the same sailing principals and safety in mind. Don’t be scared of it. It is just another sailing maneuver. I suggest that inexperience sailor should practice jibing and tacking as often as he can in any conditions of the sea, and independent of the crew number. Just to find out how your boat is behaving under different coditions. You can take it for granted, that at some point every one of us will do jibing or tacking at the most unwanted moment, and practice will only help. If you need more info try to look for sailing or racing tactics books (ex. Doyle, North) were without any unnecessary comments you get exactly how to manage many of those techniques. It is too much to write about it, sorry. Yes I agree every situation is different and there is no one simple formula to do proper jibing. It is in your guts and sailing heart.
2. Racing is a very good idea to learn but don’t listen to the comments like: "I don’t use preventer because this is the racing boat (Giu I never heard such a crap). If you going to do CAN racing most likely you will never use preventer as most of those boats never sail dead downwind (but I would not rule it out), however, if you do ocean or long distance races don’t you dare to go out without preventer (strong preventer). It is one of the most essential hardware to prevent what GIU is calling "accident". Such accidents are only the luck of attention to what is happening around you and luck of employing "sweet'" preventer. Use it if you can and you will see that in the case of so called accidental jibing you still have a chance to correct your course and get out of the trouble. I personally do not see any room for accidental jibing unless you are racing in so wired conditions or simply do not pay attention to the surroundings. Only in NZ you can expect 25-40 degrees shifts on regular bases. In the USA it is very rare.
3. Jibing in over 20 kts of wind. I am big time surprised (!!!!!!) that on this forum so called racers are not jibing in 20 kts of wind. Perhaps they are simply scared. Don’t be afraid to do jibing in those conditions as you most likely will sail with speed 7-12 knots (dependent of the boat). So, 20kts minus your speed will give you just over 10knots of wind and this is not a big deal. As a matter of fact I think it would be much harder to tack in those conditions then jibing and that includes possibility of more damage to the equipment/hardware. To me personally, it makes no difference jibing or tacking and I will do it every few yards if necessary. But you need to be prepared for it, do not surprise your crew with unexpected maneuver.

Concluding, I like to encourage you to ask questions around, even if you are experienced sailor. It is very common between the most experience sailors that small information (to some without any meaning) may change your techniques of sailing relatively different and more sufficient. Stay away from “freelance” comments and always bear in mind that at sea all those arrogant attitudes will pay the price. In this thread are dozens of very important information’s from other members. Read it, use it and talk to them - rest others as they will only take your time without any resolution. If you really need it, contact me and we will exchange phone calls to chat about it.
I am always glad to help.
Ahoy
Chris
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  #65  
Old 01-10-2008
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I have been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. In my boat, tacking instead of gybing is not something to be ashamed of. It is sound seamanship when the conditions warrant it. Of course, those conditions are different from boat to boat. A fast multihull surfing downwind in 40 knots of true wind is probably only seeing 15 knots over the deck. Gybing would be a breeze. On the other hand, gybing a cruising monohull with your wife as crew in 25 knots of wind might be very expensive. As for the fellow that gybes his old wooden yawl in 50 knots....I can only wonder why he even has his mainsail up, while running off the wind ,in that boat in those conditions. Most people with a little time on the water are trying to slow things down and not break stuff once the wind pipes up to those speeds. Maybe he did it. I wouldn't. If you do, make sure you are close to home.

Gaz

Last edited by Plumper; 01-10-2008 at 05:35 PM.
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  #66  
Old 01-10-2008
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Well, it was blowing 20-25 when we started on the Broad Reach with 135, Main and Mizzen up and the ride was great. Funny thing about sailing offwind, changes in windspeed will sneak up on ya. Other than increased breeze blowing through my hoodie, there was no sign of how much wind there really was until the wave forced a round up. It was then it became apparent. Even though it was blowing that hard, running with one reef in the Main and with the Staysail up was fine. It got more interesting when we had to go to a Beam Reach to make Port Townsend. However, now that I've been out in a few more gales with Oh Joy, I douse the Main in anything over 40, unless going to windward and can make the same speeds with only the Staysail so I doubt I'll gybe in 50+ anymore. It's just not necessary. Remember, I've only had this boat since Sept. so I'm still learning which of the many sail configurations works best for what.
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  #67  
Old 01-10-2008
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Giu.... leave Hoffa alone... and leave Brittany alone too.
pigslo
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  #68  
Old 01-10-2008
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On my boat, in 25 knots of wind, we are using the 95% blade and have one reef in the main and the boat is flying. That seems to keep the rail out of the water and the stresses down. On the boat I race we are down to the 100% jib with no reef at 25 knots but we have the sails absolutely flat to depower them. It is not my boat so I don't pay for the frequent repairs.....
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  #69  
Old 01-10-2008
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The key is to depower your sails in a bit of advance to the coming worsen weather. While cruising, depowering gives you much less stress on sails, rig and the ruder. It will slow down the boat, but in the case of maneuverability it will definitely help - especially with short handed crew. At seas with 50 kts wind and big waves ( usually 15-22 feet), to do jibing would be a very good idea to get cover from the waves (assuming you are reefed) and do jibing in between the waves, but it must happened fast. Generally in big waves you will sail much slower upwind then with the waves. On many boats it will be more convenient to tack instead of jibing, but only to the point when you can maintain speed of at least 4-7 knots. If you can not, then jibing would be probobly the best way to go.
Racing is a bit different as the racers want to win. So, they will pull all the chances until of course something breaks. Well, its racers way of living - on the edge. Cruisers do not have to do this and can sail in 50 knots while drinking warm coffee. If for some reason depowering (flatten or less sails) do not work you must use sea drag to slow down the boat and then jibing also is not so bad. The worst thing you can do is to get scared. Then you will never do jibing which means sailing for ever with the storm or crushing to huge waves and most likely not finishing your tack. By the way that is why we do jibing or tacking in the storms – to get away from the storm (dependent on the tack you are at the moment). In normal conditions it really does not matter to do tacking or jibing. All it is , is practice!

chris
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  #70  
Old 01-10-2008
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... As far as this old wooden yawl. It is a very seaworthy boat, but the pictures clearly show that the reefing is not done properly. Check the stress marks on the main sail at the reefing point. It is simply too tight. In the 40-50 knots of wind it would rip off that sail in a matter od seconds. Solution to that is to loosen on main halyard and get reefing point closer do the boom or simply loosen up the “lines at the reefing points” (I am sure there is the name for it, but at the moment I do not remember it). You should never be tightening the sail at the reefing points – only at gooseneck or reefing line at the end of the boom. Otherwise the purpose of those short reefing ties (I think I just found the name for it…LOL) is to keep the sail from falling over board or on the deck or simply from flapping around. Every sail is design the way to withstand reefing strees at three points: halyard, goosneck and reefing line at the boom. We can see from the picture that the wind was not blowing more then 28 knots, so they did not rip off that sail, but be aware of that important application.
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