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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
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  #21  
Old 03-05-2008
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Cruising multihulls are pretty difficult to flip.

You should probably do the same thing if you're on a monohull, because it may downflood and sink when it is rolled by the storm that capsizes the multihull. The multihull will still be floating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumper View Post
If I was a multihull guy, I would put a VHF radio in my pocket too. Then when it does flip you can call for help.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #22  
Old 03-06-2008
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Upside down.
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  #23  
Old 03-06-2008
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Telstar 28
 
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Thanks Rockter... I hope Nessie bites you the next time you're out saiilng.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #24  
Old 03-06-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Cruising multihulls are pretty difficult to flip.

You should probably do the same thing if you're on a monohull, because it may downflood and sink when it is rolled by the storm that capsizes the multihull. The multihull will still be floating.
I have been in two races where big Farriers (trimarans) flipped (end for end). I have yet to see or talk to anyone who capsized in a keel boat. I think the odds are in favour of monohulls. That is why the discussion has gone on for decades. There is no doubt that multihulls are faster, roomer and float upside down but the reason they are still on the fringe is pretty clear to me.
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There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar IV, iii, 217
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  #25  
Old 03-06-2008
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Telstar 28
 
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Plumper-

As I have said before, generally, when a cruising multihull capsizes it is usually due to human error—usually having way too much canvas up for the given conditions—or going to fast for the conditions.

Most of the Farrier designs are more racing oriented, and as such have less buoyancy in their amas than a cruising trimaran of the same LOA.

Pitchpoling, as you have described above, is usually the result of going too fast for the conditions and burying the bows... Again, a cruising trimaran will generally have more reserve buoyancy in its hulls than a racing design, and will be less likely to bury its bows and pitchpole. Finally, a cruising multihull, like mine for instance, is also going to have less sail area than a racing one.

Some numbers:

...............Telstar 28 ...........Corsair C28 (originally a Farrier design)
LOA............. 27' 8" ..........vs.... 28' 5"
LWL............. 26' 6" ..........vs.... 26' 3"
Beam.......... 18' ...............vs.... 19' 9"
Mast............ 35' 6" ...........vs.... 36' 6"
Weight..........3400 lbs. ......vs.... 2,690 lbs
Mainsail .......242 sq. ft .....vs... 300 sq ft
Jib.............. 190 sq. ft. ....vs.... 175 sq ft,

Please note, the Telstar has a backstay and the Corsair does not. Also, the Corsair has a rotating mast, the Telstar does not. The jib size on the Telstar is an estimate based on the I & J measurements. I have the 150% genny shown in the drawing, and it is 274 sq. ft.

The weight of the Telstar is estimated, based on discussions with several owners, the factory estimate of 3000 lbs. is very optimistic, and the 3400 I've estimated is probably a bit low.

I'm also posting an image of the two boats side-by-side... this is roughly to scale, but may not be 100% accurate. The drawings don't really tell the difference between the two boats IMHO. The Telstar has 6' standing headroom throughout most of the cabin, the Corsair 28 has less than 5' 2".



Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumper View Post
I have been in two races where big Farriers (trimarans) flipped (end for end). I have yet to see or talk to anyone who capsized in a keel boat. I think the odds are in favour of monohulls. That is why the discussion has gone on for decades. There is no doubt that multihulls are faster, roomer and float upside down but the reason they are still on the fringe is pretty clear to me.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 03-06-2008 at 01:47 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-06-2008
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Sailingdog,

I have heard all the arguments. I have sailed in multihulls. Regardless of why they flip (end for end or side to side), they do. End of story. Prudence dictates, keep a VHF radio in your pocket and keep your ditch bag where it is accessible when the boat is upside down. (as required on multihulls in offshore races)
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There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar IV, iii, 217
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2008
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Just watched Storm Tactics - Cape Horn Tested - Lin and Larry Pardey

Borrowed free from public library. Made me much more relaxed and gave me some processes for dealing in bad weather.
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  #28  
Old 03-07-2008
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RE: Sqaulls - Multihull safety debate

Thanks for the info Sailingdog. A retort to our monohull detractors. I recall reading a story probably by Charles Kanter. He responded to somebody expressing concern about inverted multihulls, because they had seen lots of pictures of people waiting for rescue sitting on the inverted hulls, but could not recall seeing any pictures of people hanging on to inverted monohulls. The response was sobering. It went something like this: "That is because if a monohull goes inverted and floods, it sinks like a stone; whereas the multihull's positive bouyancy can keep them afloat inverted for days." According to the Yahoo Gemini owners group, there have been about 6 known inversions, and all were salvagable. Not bad for a fleet of 1000+ boats and 15+ years at sea.
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  #29  
Old 03-07-2008
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There are a few monohulls which have positive buoyancy, but they tend to be fairly cramped inside, due to the space taken up by the foam used to make them buoyant.

The risk of capsize on a cruising multihull is miniscule, provided the boat is sailed reasonably. Any idiot can capsize a mulithull. Just because a multihull can do 18 knots doesn't mean that it should be doing 18 knots in a given set of conditions. Your car is probably capable of going 100 mph, but I don't think that you'd be wise to do that on a icy winding country road at night in a snowstorm...

The monohull view on it is that multihulls have a position of ultimate stability—upside down with the rig in the water... well, monohulls also have a position of ultimate stability... sitting upright on the bottom of the ocean. I know which I'd rather be on.

One other thing to consider—most boats that go out to sea are not self-righting. The monohull sailors almost irrational fear of capsize is probably due to the fact that monohulls, when they capsize, run a serious risk of downflooding and sinking.

I've seen monohulls get nearly knocked down at anchor because there were some swells coming in...they just started rolling, and kept rolling more, and more and more... they finally left the anchorage, probably to find someplace without the swells that were causing them problems. My boat, my friend's trimaran and another catamaran didn't have any problems at all. It was fun to watch the guys on the monohull scurry around on a rocking boat, like ants in a kicked anthill though.

I've sailed on a lot of monohulls...and there are some I really like.. but I like multihulls better.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #30  
Old 03-07-2008
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Flame away, multilhull guys, but in a bad pinch I'd rather be on a boat that (assuming hull, hatches, and keel intact) naturally wants to roll back upright form a 180-degree roll or a pitchpole, than one that doesn't.

I have no personal experience in either (thank God) but that's my unenlightened opinion.
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