Heeling is SCARY!

[SoftJazz]

I guess I'm an adrenaline freak. Last year I started learning to sail & we were sailing sideways up waves with big wind in a small sailboat. The guy teaching me wasn't worried, so I didn't worry. Then I started crewing on a raceboat. When you race, you heel. This year, I experienced broaching. I knew the boom didn't belong in the water, but for some reason I didn't freak. We ended up dropping the sails & dropping out of that race, but so did several other boats, including one whose spinnaker shredded. Our captain wisely decided that this wasn't the time to try to teach the crew how to handle a broach. It was kind of a neat experience, I thought.

Someday I hope to get good at this. Sailing, I mean.

[Imperial88]

great thread, thanks to all.

first boat 19' starwind, taught me about heeling...

[saildork]

Originally Posted by SoftJazz

I guess I'm an adrenaline freak. Last year I started learning to sail & we were sailing sideways up waves with big wind in a small sailboat. The guy teaching me wasn't worried, so I didn't worry. Then I started crewing on a raceboat. When you race, you heel. This year, I experienced broaching. I knew the boom didn't belong in the water, but for some reason I didn't freak. We ended up dropping the sails & dropping out of that race, but so did several other boats, including one whose spinnaker shredded. Our captain wisely decided that this wasn't the time to try to teach the crew how to handle a broach. It was kind of a neat experience, I thought.

Someday I hope to get good at this. Sailing, I mean.

Jazz, you might have a good tale to tell in the Big Freaking Sails (BFS) thread.

[kjango]

I have very quickly grown weary of excessive heeling when I sail . 10-15 degrees of heel is comfortable & the boat moves well . I can put the rail in the water but there's no appreciatable increase in speed , & you can't set anything down . I have also grown weary of having someone on the helm that has a background in racing & is continually coming up on the wind after I've set a course & trimmed sails forcing the boat over . This is especially onerous to me as I ALWAYS explain my expectations & plan in as nice a way as I can . To add insult generally when I make a POLITE call to accountablity the usual response is that the boat comes up on the wind on it's own . Imagine the facial expression of the helmsman when in a polite tone of voice I explain that if I could set the steering & walk away I wouldn't need a stupid f$%king shoe clerk SOB on the helm . It's like wiping your azz with your foot for the sake of making it more difficult . I'm old....my boats 77 years old......& if someone on my boat needs an adrenalin rush I'll happily oblidge by kicking their azz & then they can go home & piss blood for a week . I hate everything....but I especially hate a mealy mouth no account low bred no manners shoe clerk SOB that can't understand plain spoken English & follow simple instructions & who only will respond to extreme duress & fear of pain while a guest on MY boat . Have I made myself clear . Any questions ??? The boat does go nice at 20 degrees of heel & it is cool watching the water go by & every now & then shipping a little green water , but it's a bit like our cars....they'll easily go a hundred miles an hour but it would be uncomfortable & hard on the car .

[DrB]

Each boat is different. Put a 150%+ genoa, full main, and a some boats tip over in 10Kts of breeze, while others need 20kts to get it to move. Some boats sail better flat, while others need 20 deg+ to get a full wetted waterline.

As others mentioned, high angle heels aren't necessarily efficient sailing; although some sailor think they are. It's all about the helm. If the helm is balanced (minimal weather helm), then the boat is sailing efficiently, regardless of heel angle. On our boat, it's somewhere between 15 and 22 deg of heel with a full set of canvas. I can push it to about 30 deg if the main is reefed. When I crew on a J105 and work the main, when the winds are 15+ kts, I am constantly watching the sail and asking the captain how is the helm. I can see if he is fighting it a lot from the centerpoint indicator relative to neutral. If he is, I ask him if he wants me to adjust the main.

Crew comfort is also critical. If someone not use to sailing is uncomfortable with heel angle, we either: adjust the sails, change course, or reduce canvas.

DrB

[MazeRat7]

We sail on a lake in central Texas that is now a canyon due to its being down over 30'. The winds here are wicked. Variable, puffy, and pray for grace if you get caught anywhere near one of the typical thunderstorms. (Out-flow/mico bursts are crazy).

To that point, I sail a pretty 'tender" boat with a ballast ratio around 24%. (Here is a write up for my specific boat on ballast and heeling. The "Science" of Ballast and Heeling for a Catalina 22 ). My biggest fear is that in a knockdown, something will encumber the mast (like water in a sail or water in the cabin) that will not allow the boat to right.

I've even worked out a few plans to make sure we right, just in case.

With that said, I strive to keep her feet in the water and my lady (the admiral) happy. Considering my working jib is toast and all I have currently is a 135 genoa, on certain days it requires I start with a pretty flat main, vang engaged, traveler correctly positioned before I fly the genny. In other words, I want my main to have minimal "power" and only help balance the boat/point. Additionally, as the wind builds/falls off, I will reposition the cars for the genoa sheets to add/remove power once it is up. If things really get crazy (wind flipping about and really gusty) I'll drop the headsail, shake the reef out of the main, and sit back for a while and relax.

Its a lake, the only place I have to go....is to go sailing and enjoy the ride.

MZr7

[futureshock999]

One thing that I have not seen mentioned in this thread is the factor of hull shape in determining how far heeled you should be. Some boats, especially racing boats built to certain rules, are expected to have a fairly large amount of heel to increase their waterline length, and thus their top end speed. This is especially true of beamy designs like the IOR "bulging" designs of old.

My Nicholson 32 has a 165 degree angle of vanishing stability - the product of three tons of lead in her full keel. It would be untrue to say she can't go over - but I have a feeling it would take quite a sea state to do so - likely a large wave beam on AND a huge gust, and some bad luck. I don't have to reef in 20+ knots of apparent wind. However, this year I have made myself promise that I WILL reef if only to better balance the helm and stop my tiller arm from getting so tired...and have lead the main halyard back to the cockpit (rather than the mast winch) to make sure I have no excuse not do do it early...

[puddinlegs]

Originally Posted by futureshock999

...and have lead the main halyard back to the cockpit (rather than the mast winch) to make sure I have no excuse not do do it early...

.. and your reefing gear?

[futureshock999]

Originally Posted by puddinlegs

.. and your reefing gear?

Sorry, should have said that was already lead to the cockpit - which resulted in having to move have two people reefing, or me flying back and forth between the mast winch and the coachroof winch and stoppers. The only downside to having the main halyard lead back is of course now it shares the same winch as the reefing lines, so I have to move them on and off the winch, but at least I can do that within the confines of the cockpit rather than going forward - a real concern when there is usually no one on board I trust to be able to perform a MOB besides myself.

[bshipp]

I usually give my Rhode Island sailing companions the same advice about reefing that I do about voting: early and often. Unfortunately though I am good at dispensing said advice I am bad about following it. Countless times we end up grabbing a mooring after a hard sail and saying to ourselves, "pass the martini pitcher. Boy we should have reefed."

I remember once I was sailing a 29' sloop down the east passage of Narragansett Bay to Newport. I had a friend onboard who had been sailing before, and a girl friend of his who had never been. We started heeling quite a bit and took some water over the rail. She asked me "is this OK?" I replied, "Gee, I don't know. It's never done this before." That was a mistake