What's that "rear stay" on a gaff rig? - SailNet Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 08-04-2009 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
What's that "rear stay" on a gaff rig?

If you look at this pic, you can see, what looks to me, to me some sort of stay going from the mast to the hull about halfway between the mast and the stern.



What is that called? How is it used? It seems like it would be in the way if you wanted to let the mainsail out on a run. Do they move out of the way? Are they a pain to deal with?

I only see them on some gaff rigged boats. What determines if they should be included in a design or not? Sometimes they seem to attach to the hull much further forward and don't seem like they'd be in the way.

(I'm not talking about lazy-jacks. I know what those are, but these are not them.)

Thanks!
Greg
GregX999 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 08-04-2009
ex-Navy
 
bloodhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 224
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Greg
Looks to me like a running backstay. Should be one on each side of the hull. You put tension on the stay on the windward side of the boat to support the mast. The stay on the leeward side is loosened enough so it does not get in the way of the main.
We have running backstays on Enchantress to support the mast when we fly a staysail
bloodhunter is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 10 Old 08-04-2009
Moderator
 
JohnRPollard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 5,680
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodhunter View Post
Greg
Looks to me like a running backstay. Should be one on each side of the hull. You put tension on the stay on the windward side of the boat to support the mast. The stay on the leeward side is loosened enough so it does not get in the way of the main.
We have running backstays on Enchantress to support the mast when we fly a staysail
That's right. They are running backstays. In case Greg didn't follow the explanation fully -- you must ease the working runner and take up on the lazy runner each time a tack or jibe is executed, much like the jib/genoa sheets.

They are common on gaffers like the one pictured, as well as many fractional rigged boats where the lightweight backstay is used more for flattenning the mainsail than it is for keeping the mast up right. They are less commonly used nowadays, where most fractional rigs are sprung tightly with aft-swept spreaders and shrouds.

You also see them on many cutter-rigs, where the runners meet the mast at the same hight as the forestay, to prevent the mast from pumping under the load of the 'staysail.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

NEVER CALLS CRUISINGDAD BACK....CAN"T TAKE THE ACCENT
JohnRPollard is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 10 Old 08-04-2009
Senior Member
 
Selkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tupelo, MS
Posts: 190
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
That's a cool looking boat. At least it is to me.

What is it?

And what's that little sail above the mainsail called?

When you come to a "Y" in the road, take it....Yogi Berra
Selkirk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 10 Old 08-04-2009
Moderator
 
JohnRPollard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 5,680
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkirk View Post
That's a cool looking boat. At least it is to me.

What is it?

And what's that little sail above the mainsail called?
It looks a lot like a Falmouth Channel Cutter, by Lyle Hess. Could be an Atkin design, too.

EDIT: Probably not an FCC, which were usually jib-headed cutters.

That's a topsail, usually the "first reef" on a gaffer.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

NEVER CALLS CRUISINGDAD BACK....CAN"T TAKE THE ACCENT

Last edited by JohnRPollard; 08-04-2009 at 05:40 PM.
JohnRPollard is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 10 Old 08-04-2009 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Running backstay... got it! Thanks!

When tacking/jibing, do they need winches, or is just a good tug and a cleat of some sort? (Assuming a 25-35 boat.)

It seems you would need to *really* let out the "lazy" one if you wanted to let the main sail out. On that boat anyway.

(I'm not sure what the boat is, I just google-searched until I found a picture of a gaff-rig that had, what I now know, a running back-stay.)

Greg
GregX999 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 10 Old 08-04-2009
ex-Navy
 
bloodhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 224
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Greg,
We use the secondary winches on ours, but you don't want to put too much tension on it. On the boat in your diagram, it looks like it just gets pulled manually .
i've never flown the stay sail when I had the boom way out but also have the stays rigged so I can pull the lazy one forward so it doesn't chafe the sail.
bloodhunter is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 10 Old 08-04-2009
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,031
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregX999 View Post
Running backstay... got it! Thanks!

When tacking/jibing, do they need winches, or is just a good tug and a cleat of some sort? (Assuming a 25-35 boat.)

It seems you would need to *really* let out the "lazy" one if you wanted to let the main sail out. On that boat anyway.

Greg
"Traditional" boats do not have have winches; halyards, etc. are sweated. The lazy backstay does have to eased out a good distance.

Modern race boats (and some cruising boats) also have running backstays which require very close attention.

Jack

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 10 Old 08-05-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,136
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
If it's a not Lyle Hess it's probably a Paul Gartside design.
WanderingStar is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 10 Old 08-05-2009
Moderator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,893
Thanks: 5
Thanked 147 Times in 120 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Gaff rigged boats used a number of techniques to 'set up' (tension) the running backstays. Very often there was a two or four part tackle that was used to grossly release the backstay. This had a lot of line and was eased out with each tack. The other end of that line went to a small tackle that would then be used to provide the mechanical advantage needed to fully tension the stays. Another technique used to tension the backstays was a highfield lever, which was a device that tensions the stay with mechanical advantage that come from simple leverage. Small boats often used a system that had a track that ran along the deck that the backstays attached to and a tackle was used to pull the stay aft and tension the stay.

It should be noted that gaff rigs generally do not operate at the high level of tension associated with Bermuda rigs so these systems generally work acceptably well. In small boats you quickly get used to dealing with the runners and they become second nature, the hardest part being the need for very careful jibes. In bigger boats the loads get very big and the timing more critical.

Jeff


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ketch vs Sloop? bobmcd Boat Review and Purchase Forum 44 09-27-2012 10:43 AM
Sloop, Cutter or Ketch jsgsail Boat Review and Purchase Forum 17 12-26-2008 02:47 PM
My First Boat...Boat Term Question... Kacper General Discussion (sailing related) 38 09-23-2008 06:52 PM
Ketch/Yawl Handling svsymphony Seamanship & Navigation 19 07-05-2008 01:19 AM
Yawl Info Needed sailortonyb1 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 01-18-2006 04:51 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome