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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
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  #11  
Old 01-19-2010
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One simple way to do this is to tie a small line from a deck fitting to the forestay, above the top hank of jib. That will prevent the jib from trying to self-deploy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
I'm not sure where the talk of grounding came from. That's about the only mistake I DIDN'T make- I never touched the bottom.

I was using my smaller jib. I think the dang boat came with a 110 and a 130. I'd really like my "working" jib to be a 90 or 100.

The jibs appear to be in pretty decent shape, it's just the main that's "tired but serviceable". I've already priced a replacement so I'll buy it come the Spring.

Riddle me this folks:

If I'm supposed to prep the jib before I get underway, how do I keep it doused, and under control while I motor out to the area where I have enough room to raise sails? Do I just pile it up and place something heavy on it or what?

I'm old-school, no roller-furling system.
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
I'm not sure where the talk of grounding came from. That's about the only mistake I DIDN'T make- I never touched the bottom.

I was using my smaller jib. I think the dang boat came with a 110 and a 130. I'd really like my "working" jib to be a 90 or 100.

The jibs appear to be in pretty decent shape, it's just the main that's "tired but serviceable". I've already priced a replacement so I'll buy it come the Spring.

Riddle me this folks:

If I'm supposed to prep the jib before I get underway, how do I keep it doused, and under control while I motor out to the area where I have enough room to raise sails? Do I just pile it up and place something heavy on it or what?

I'm old-school, no roller-furling system.
Bubblehead,

As you know, I'm not real keen on having you out learning how to sail in the middle of winter, especially with kids aboard. But if you're going to be out there anyway...

Don't worry about that smaller sail being a 110 instead of a 90-100. A 110 is actually a pretty good size to have on Chesapeake Bay (I wish I had one!) along with the larger 130 +/- genoa. With a reef or two in your mainsail, you will be able to handle the vast majority of conditions that you'll encounter on the Bay. So don't feel disappointed about that, it's a good sail to have.

As for prepping the jib before heading out -- good plan. We have roller furler on our current boat, but I've sailed thousands of miles on boats with hank-on jibs. Our normal routine was to hank the luff of the jib to the headstay with it still in the bag, secure the tack and and attach the halyard at the head.

Depending on the sail bag and how well it secures closed, often nothing more is necessary than to tighten the bag cinch. Sometimes, it's helpful or necessary (for instance, when the sailbag can't be left on) to secure the head of the sail with a gasket (i.e. sail tie), by running the gasket through the head cringle and down to the stem fitting where the tack is secured. When it's time to hoist sail, someone goes forward and removes the bag and/or the gasket.

I have seen, but never used myself, an arrangement where a downhaul is used with the headsail, that can be manipulated from the cockpit. This might be a good arrangement if you expect to be shorthanded most of the time.
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  #13  
Old 01-19-2010
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Great tips guys. I especially like the idea of stuffing the meat of the sail into the bag on the deck. While I'm tied up, I'll try a couple of different methods.

John, I greatly appreciate your concern and respect your skill and experience but I can't hide in the closet on every day that isn't 85F and sunny with 5kt winds.

I had on a new, Type I PDF, I've schooled my "crew" in operation of the VHF, and the fire extinguisher, and MOB procedures. I was towing a dink that I told them to untie if I fell off, that I'd swim to as well. Assuming the cold water didn't kill me in the first few minutes. I have stood on the Arctic icepack at the North Pole (more than once). I know the dangers of the cold water.

I tell a good story, but I was more at risk of ruining the jib or getting stuck on the edge of the channel than incurring an injury or death.
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  #14  
Old 01-19-2010
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Bubble,

To tame a hanked-on jib, JohnR's suggestion is what most people do. However, I would pull the sail out of the bag before you left the dock and just hank the sail on, attach the halyard, and wrap a gasket around the balled-up sail. That way there's one less thing to keep track of, and it saves you from having to fish the bag out of the water if/when it gets away from you. Depending on how strong the wind is, you may or may not bother using another gasket to secure the peak of the sail; unless the wind is really pumping the balled-up/tied-up sail will just sit there on the foredeck, waiting for someone to free it so it can play.

Also, while Type I PFD's offer the best buoyancy, they are usually pretty awkward to wear while you're sailing. You might want to get some Type III vests (or go to the extreme and get some inflatable PFDs) . You'll be trading a bit of buoyancy for the ability to work/sail much more easily. You may opt for the additional sense of "security" that the additional floatation of a Type I offers, but that "security" may be quite deceptive, as it has to be balanced against the "security" that the additional mobility a Type III affords (including ones increased ability to keep the boat out of danger, and the increased ability to stay on the boat in the first place).
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  #15  
Old 01-19-2010
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Bubble

you need to read up on hypothermia

With ice in the water it is likely that your fingers will not work within 2 minutes and there is a high risk of instant cardiac arrest depending on the person


Which is fine for you as and adult BUT not a good thing for 15 year olds who dont know better
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  #16  
Old 01-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post


I'm...getting my ass totally handed to me by the jib.
That is the sailing phrase of the week right there. We have all been there, all done that.

Congrats on the successful sail, Bubbles.
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2010
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Scroll up two posts, read my complete statement. I know what hypothermia does and how quickly it occurs. It's not good for an adult or a kid. I'm a 20 year Navy man, and I've been in all weather conditions on large and small vessels. Do you think I just threw them on the boat without any kind of pre-departure brief or training?

My opinion is that yet another weekend in front of the video game console or texting on the cell phone is even worse for them.

I gladly accept all critiques of my sailing abilities, but keep your parenting advice to yourself.

My kids go horseback riding, skiing (water and snow), motorcycling and now sailing. I won't lock them in their rooms until they're 18 like most modern parents.

Life is hard, life is dangerous, no one gets out alive and some of us depart sooner than others. Call CPS on me if you like.
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  #18  
Old 01-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Scroll up two posts, read my complete statement. I know what hypothermia does and how quickly it occurs. It's not good for an adult or a kid. I'm a 20 year Navy man, and I've been in all weather conditions on large and small vessels. Do you think I just threw them on the boat without any kind of pre-departure brief or training?

My opinion is that yet another weekend in front of the video game console or texting on the cell phone is even worse for them.

I gladly accept all critiques of my sailing abilities, but keep your parenting advice to yourself.

My kids go horseback riding, skiing (water and snow), motorcycling and now sailing. I won't lock them in their rooms until they're 18 like most modern parents.

Life is hard, life is dangerous, no one gets out alive and some of us depart sooner than others. Call CPS on me if you like.
Those are some helpful precautions you're taking, and it's good that you're thinking about the dangers. But as some others have pointed out, there's still a great deal of risk due to hypothermia.

With water temps what they are, it's unlikely you or anyone else would be able to swim to the dinghy -- it would need to be delivered to the MOB. Releasing it from the boat would in my opinion be a huge mistake and I would urge you not to tell your crew to do that. Even if the MOB was still capable of swimming, a loose dinghy will drift quickly with the wind and that would be moderately advantageous only if the MOB fell in while close hauled. Even then, the dinghy would not drift down directly at the MOB.

In these kinds of conditions, you and crew should be harnessed in at all times to prevent going overboard in the first instance. That means you'll need jacklines run port and starboard along the sidedecks, and proper harnesses and tethers. Also, you should have your MOB lifting harness on deck and ready to go to reduce the amount of time it takes to get someone back on board if they go over despite these precautions.

This is not a question of parenting skills or choices. This is proper seamanship and safety precautions for the prevailing conditions. I cannot emphasize enough that the plan you have in mind for using the dinghy as a MOB recovery device is very poorly conceived.
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  #19  
Old 01-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapworth View Post
I carry a big stick for pushing of ground. Caleb what is the name of your friends boat I am at Blue Water
Lap,
My friends boat is an Endeavor 32' called 'Que Sera' berthed near 'Traveler'. I'm not sure about the draft of this boat but it has got to be at least 4' and we have found the bottom quite a few times on it. If you explore the Rhode River by 'Low Island' near Camp Letts you will find some rather skinny water indeed. In the summer my friend just jumps overboard and pushes the boat when there is little/no wind. In the winter I guess one would not want to do that!
BubbleheadMd,
I know you did not report running aground. If you stay in the channel (as you reported doing) and head out into the bay you will likely steer clear of the bottom. Running aground in your area is an inevitability if you like to explore outside the marked channels. It really is a great area for sailing though.
Again, congrats on your successful January sail.
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  #20  
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Let's expand on that John.

I have a harness. I'll buy a few more for whomever I take onboard as "crew". As you say, it's good seamanship so chalk it up as "Mistake #5".

If one of my young crew fall overboard, I can haul them back in. If I fall overboard, I'm just chum for the fish. They aren't going to pull me back in.

I suppose you're right, that releasing the dink for me to get to, isn't the best plan. If I'm harnessed, they should douse the sails and stop the boat so that I can pull myself back to the boat. I have a ladder. This all operates on the premise that I'll be conscious and functional in the cold water.

The premise that I operate on, is that I'll be dead 30 seconds after entering the cold water, so the focus is on not entering the water. The whole time that the jib was flogging me, my primary concern was my grip and my stability. I would have let the sail shred itself and just returned to the cockpit if at any moment I felt that I was being overcome. The lifejacket was so that someone could find my body later, after my "crew" called for help as I instructed them. They are directed to remain near me if possible, but not to attemt to retrieve me unless I am conscious and giving them direction (of course I wasn't expecting to be conscious).

You know, the more I review the initial post, the more I understand that I am a reckless and poor seaman. It's wrong of me to put the responsibility of handling the boat on my kids, if something should happen to me, since I don't take adequate precautions for myself.

I'll leave them on the beach and start single-handing. My consequences will be my own.
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