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post #11 of 20 Old 07-17-2010
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If it's a roller furler on the head sail, roll in to about 50%, easier than reefing the main under load.

Then when the boat motion is more comfortable heave-to and reef the main.

Letting out the 140 head sail may produce a bag that induces weather helm.

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post #12 of 20 Old 07-17-2010
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If you've got a 140 and you had it tacked off, you'll still get a good deal of heel - even with the main sheet out.

We have a C27 with a hank-on 150 head sail. We had it out in 20-25 last week. 150 is a lot of sail for that much wind, and we got heeled over nice and deep close-hauled (with main out and traveler down) - but were able to keep driving pretty well. Gusty conditions too can accentuate the feeling of the heel.

So, I think it depends more on what you mean by "too much heel". We never rounded up, and we were sailing at hull speed, but it was a deep angle. But we really had to play that sheet and traveler. Of course, I'm a freak. I like the rail in the water.

PS - sorry, I just read that you said you had the 140 "out" (assuming you mean that you had completely released the sheet?). If that's the case, and if you had the mainsheet all the way out as well, she should have come back up and you definitely shouldn't have rounded up. Something's definitely weird.


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Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-17-2010 at 10:23 PM.
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post #13 of 20 Old 07-18-2010 Thread Starter
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Ulladh, that makes a lot of sense, it took us a while to let the jib sheet out completely (we were trying small adjustments at a time), and probably what you mentionedoccurred, not letting us reduce heel as we were expecting. You dont find this stuff in books! thanks.

Smackdadddy, agree that 140 was a lot of sail for those conditions, I should have reduce it before this happened...I was not able to write my story clear...it did reduce heel once everything was completely out (loose), but we wanted to continue our course and continue heeling (as much as we are comfortable), what happened is that as we were "applying" the technics I know to reduce heel (mentioned before), no real reduction was occurring....so had to round up...I guess the story here is that the more comfortable you get with heeling, the more you push your limit and that presents new situations and need new skill...btw, I am impressed how sturdy the Catalina 27 is, what a great sailboat...

Now I cant freaking wait until I am in the same situation (reefed this time!)...
Thank you!
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post #14 of 20 Old 07-18-2010
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There is a limited range of wind speeds within which you can reduce the heel, and still sail, by trimming the sails. At some point, your only choice is to reef so the boat is not overpowered. If it was possible to trim the sails to respond to any wind speed, we would not need reefing.
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post #15 of 20 Old 07-18-2010
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What were you doing course-wise at during all of this?

If you were heading down, that could be it - if you come down but don't ease the sails to match course you'll "heel more and more" as you experienced. That's the only think I can think of, you either intentionally or unintentionally came down by more than you were easing sheets.

In the future, if you just need to deal with it I would maintain course and ease ease ease - main ragging, and you can even have the luff of the jib backing... looks ugggly but hey if you're out racing with a 155% and no way to change sails without going bare-headed and no way to reef the main ya do what ya gotta do (how I've ended up in that situation before... doing 10kt in 20kt on the beam in a J/24). If you're close-hauled, either head up a bit to pinch (it's called "feathering" when you mean to do it) or blade the crap outta the main, loads of vang on and now your mainsheet is just a big traveller. If it's REALLY snotty and you have room, run before it... you can carry a lot of sail if you're virtually DDW and careful, you'll either pop up on plane and suddenly things will be much nicer or you'll just dig a bigger and bigger hole in the water but at least you'll be relatively flat and you can plan out your next moves as this is NOT a mode to just kinda hang out in with too much canvas up.

I've only done the run thing once - we had the #2 (140%) up and full main when we got b!tch-slapped in the middle of the night in the gulf stream... lots of sail up for 50+ kt! Luckily the gulf stream being the gulf stream it was over in about 2 minutes

In any event, sails under-trimmed = less and less heel, sounds like your helm came down as well and came down more than you eased

Last edited by ste27; 07-18-2010 at 12:50 PM.
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post #16 of 20 Old 07-18-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cspaniel View Post
Ulladh, that makes a lot of sense, it took us a while to let the jib sheet out completely (we were trying small adjustments at a time), and probably what you mentionedoccurred, not letting us reduce heel as we were expecting. You dont find this stuff in books! thanks.

Smackdadddy, agree that 140 was a lot of sail for those conditions, I should have reduce it before this happened...I was not able to write my story clear...it did reduce heel once everything was completely out (loose), but we wanted to continue our course and continue heeling (as much as we are comfortable), what happened is that as we were "applying" the technics I know to reduce heel (mentioned before), no real reduction was occurring....so had to round up...I guess the story here is that the more comfortable you get with heeling, the more you push your limit and that presents new situations and need new skill...btw, I am impressed how sturdy the Catalina 27 is, what a great sailboat...

Now I cant freaking wait until I am in the same situation (reefed this time!)...
Thank you!
Aaaa - don't beat yourself up. It's not like you can always see gusts like that coming. And they ALWAYS happen when Sailflow predicts a nice mellow 10 knots.

It sounds like these other guys are right. That you were falling off and exposing more sail to the wind until you did a round-up. That makes the most sense to me based on what I've done in my boat (exactly the same stuff as you describe).

The cool thing is that you came home perfectly safe and learned some great lessons. And you're ready to get back out and put them to use. Keep at it. It's nothing but fun!

The C27 is indeed a great boat.


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post #17 of 20 Old 07-18-2010
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Hey

One last point. The Catalina 27 is a masthead rig with a large headsail and a relatively small mainsail. So the headsail is way more important than the main. If you have a full 140 out and the breeze builds, unless you ease the genoa, the boat is going to heel (a lot).

Barry

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Mt. Sinai, NY

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Last edited by BarryL; 07-19-2010 at 10:22 AM.
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-19-2010 Thread Starter
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These are all great points, thank you so much! went out yesterday again, with nice gusts, this time reefed, and was much better, and was able to practice and look for many of the things you guys mentioned here, again thank you!
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post #19 of 20 Old 07-19-2010
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A 140% jenny is pretty big, and a lot of your power would be coming from that sail. So depending on the wind strength, I'm not too surprised that with your main sheeted out, you were still healing quite a bit.

Sounds like your jenny is roller furling-

I have hank on jibs, and my first thought would be going down to a smaller jib, which in your situation is roller furling the jenny a bit.

Given the size of the jenny, if you were to put a reef in the main with the full jenny flying, it might throw off the balance of the boat, (you don't know for sure unless you try), and my other concern would be flying the jenny in wind that's too strong for it and damaging it.

It has been said in this forum that boats sail best at 10-15 degrees of heel, and I have often been surprised when I reduce sail, level the boat, and the knot meter still registers the same 5.5-6 knots, (I also have a Catalina 27), and things feel so much calmer.

I find it useful to have in mind what I will do with the sails as the wind builds, (for example, "now that I have two reefs in the main, what's the next step to reduce sail if the wind continues to build", etc.)
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post #20 of 20 Old 07-20-2010
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You didn't mention wind speeds in the gusts, but a 140 is a lot of head sail to have out in anything other than light air. Unlike the mail sail, letting the head sail out while close hauled would be counter productive as it would tend to take the boat off the wind, and basically turn turn the sail (especially a 140!) into a Kite and could allow a broach (unless you let it loose, which would be ugly!). I don't understand what you meant by going off on another tack with the Genny reefed (I guess you reefed while tacking). You can also let the boat head up in the gusts (A Header), thereby depowering the sails and reducing heel, then... put her back on course when the gust subsides. If I get really overpowered, I fall off to a deep run, and reef or eliminate the Head Sail while it's covered by the Main. BTW. this is also how I always douse (furl) the Head Sail (on a Port Tack) when it's windy (it's a lot easier on the sail). In any case, I would recommend flying less head sail until you learn the boat. Having said that, it's a rare day I don't sink the rail at some point on the SF Bay with a 100% jib (and often, a reefed main)! As someone said earlier....thats what sailboats do

Last edited by L124C; 07-20-2010 at 11:21 AM.
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