How should I tail this winch?

cdhickey · #1 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

Hello folks,

This is a pretty basic question, but I'm hoping you can help. The winches for my jib sheets on my 24' are shown in the picture below- they are standard winches, and unfortunately all my (limited) sailing experience to date has been with self-tailing winches.

What is the proper way to tail these? There is a cleat (silver) a short distance ahead of the winch, another (black) a fair bit further back, and a clam cleat directly behind the winch. Which one should I be using to tail?

Faster · #2 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

You could use whichever one is handiest/easiest to use from your normal sheeting position. However the clam cleats (which look in a better location), while quicker to release are not as secure as a properly tied horn cleat like the one forward. It also looks like the clam cleat angles are not optimum for maximum holding.

Ideally you might consider changing the clams out for a Harken cam cleat. The best usable position would actually (IMO) be vertically oriented on the inside of the coaming, near the top edge below the winch where the sheet peels off (ie in line with the fwd edge of the drum on port, aft edge of drum on stbd) That's the easiest way to get a good angle on the cleat without adding spacers/wedges etc. The only problem with that location is that it may interfere with comfortably lounging against the 'seat backs" in that area.

Another advantage, though, is the ability to release the sheet with a quick tug from the weather rail.

Nice looking C&C!

SEMIJim · #3 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faster

You could use whichever one is handiest/easiest to use from your normal sheeting position. However the clam cleats (which look in a better location), while quicker to release are not as secure as a properly tied horn cleat like the one forward.

The clam cleats for racing and the horn cleats for cruising.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faster

It also looks like the clam cleat angles are not optimum for maximum holding.

Why do you say that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faster

The only problem with that location is that it may interfere with comfortably lounging against the 'seat backs" in that area.

"May?" HA! Abracadabra's PO put clam cleats in just the locations you suggest. They are fast. Fast to cleat. Fast to un-cleat. They're also very easy to accidentally un-cleat and I can't count the number of times I've accidentally leaned back into one right on my spine. *ouch*

I hate 'em, but I can't think of anything better. Cam cleats would largely solve the accidental release problem, but would be an even bigger pain in the back.

Another problem, on Abracadabra, is the clam cleat on the starboard side prevents the lazarette lid staying open on its own. You either have to keep holding it up with one hand or tie it open.

Jim

St Anna · #4 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

I agree with Faster on this one, although I also feel the cam cleats should be on top of the coaming, not as a backrest. The angles do look a little wrong.

If you dont wish to re-arrange anything until after you have sailed her a bit, then I would suggest:

If the sheet from a 150% or genaker came back to a block on the toe rail, then back to the winch, it could be just in line perfectly for the forward aluminium cleat. You could simply add a snatch block to the toe rail in order to achieve this without any major alterations. Alternatively, the black mooring cleat , although a long way behind, appears to be in the correct 'line'.

In light winds, you can loop the tail under the sheet and about the winch. This will hold it and I occasionally do this for the inner jib, which is probably about the size of your headsail.

Faster · #5 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEMIJim

Why do you say that?

Jim

Jim, it looks from the pic like the clams are flat on the coaming.. they are angled for the lead off the drum, but the approach angle as far as I can tell is too high from the upper half of the drum. Typically clams in that location would be on wedges... But anyhow I don't like clam cleats on principle...

Yes, I know the backrest issue is a big one and that's why I mentioned it.. but cams flat on the coaming will have the same issue with the lead angle.

Another reason to get rid of those clams where they are is it will open up a nice place to sit and steer from the windward side when beating.

Barquito · #6 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010

BTW, non-self tailing winches just need to have tension on the line to keep it from slipping on the drum. So, with two crew, one will winch the other tail. With one person you have to keep tension on the line with one hand and winch with the other.

My boat came with rubber gizmos that slip over the top of the winch. It is supposed to make the winches self-tailing, but, I haven't tried them yet.

St Anna · #7 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barquito

BTW, non-self tailing winches just need to have tension on the line to keep it from slipping on the drum. So, with two crew, one will winch the other tail. With one person you have to keep tension on the line with one hand and winch with the other.

My boat came with rubber gizmos that slip over the top of the winch. It is supposed to make the winches self-tailing, but, I haven't tried them yet.

Forgive me for preaching to the converted, but, I would suggest IMHO, you dont use another crew to tail. Learn to do it yourself. With 2, it is easier for one to allow the line to slip and the other can lose their fingers.
The 'rubber gizmos' do work.