Accelerated learning

[jmjatlanta]

Total newbie here. A bit of background:

I consider myself a fast learner, and learn mostly by reading. I am a commercially rated airplane pilot and was a flight instructor for a while.

My wife has done sailing trips in the past with friends and said it was great fun. She was pretty much a passenger, as a friend did the sailing. She's been to plenty of Islands in the BVI.

I'd like the privilege of going to Florida with another couple or two, and being able to rent a boat for a week to cruise. Perhaps cruise the ICW the first time or two to build experience. I'd then like to make the jump to the Bahamas.

My questions are related to how long it takes to 1) get proficient and 2) get to the point where I can rent a good-sized boat.

1) Proficiency
As a pilot, I have drilled in my head that safety is of utmost importance. How long does it take before I'd feel confident taking my wife aboard? I realize that a boat does not sail at 10,000' AGL. But I also know that I do not know what I do not know.

How long does it take to get my certifications? I am thinking of doing it by
a) studying hard book-learning so as to not be too far behind the instructor while taking a course
b) taking 1 week off work per month or 2 to cram as many courses in as possible.

2) Renting
I look to rent boats from reputable agencies. I'm not looking for luxury, but safe, well-maintained craft that can handle 2, and eventually 3 couples. What is the typical prerequisite for a first-time renter with low experience? Will I get laughed out of the marina if I attempt to rent a 2-cabin boat for a week with only my schooling/certification to back me up?

Sorry for the length, but thanks in advance for your replies.

[BubbleheadMd]

As a pilot, I'm betting that you have the proper attitude towards safety, and the concepts of "lift" and "foils" and "control surfaces" will seem very familiar.

There are sailing classes you can take (ASA 101, etc). Another way to do it, is to race on other people's boats. That was my path, but I won't advocate one way over the other because different people absorb knowledge in different ways.

There are schools that are also clubs. You get your cert, and then you can check out a boat for the day or weekend. There's J Worlds in Annapolis, for instance.

You don't "cruise" the ICW, you motor in it, and you won't learn much about sailing in the ICW. It's too narrow and too shallow to do anything but a straight line under engine power for most of it.

Um...also, different boats sail differently. You and your spouse may discover that you don't like how monohulls heel over when close to the wind, so you might want to sail a multihull like a catamaran or a trimaran. I think there are some courses to help you learn the finer points of multi hull sailing.

Definitely read a lot of books as you indicated you'll be doing. It will speed up the learning curve. You'll also need to read up on basic navigation and inland rules of the road, in addition to "what makes a sailboat go".

I've learned a lot in a year, but my knowledge would still barely fill a thimble.

Bottom line: You can learn to sail in a couple of hours, but you'll spend your whole life mastering it after that.

[Mimsy]

If you can fly, you can sail. Its amazing howmany sailors are also pilots. Wind is wind and once you understand how it behaves you are well on your way.

How quickly you will feel confident in taking your wife sailing will have a lot to do with where you sail and what you sail on. I agree with Bubblehead, learning to sail is easy- mastering it will take the rest of your life. I highly suggest BOTH of you taking lessons but in seperate boats if possible.

[Barquito]

I think reading can accelerate the learning curve. Especially, reading forums like this! However, reading only fills in the blanks. Your "sailing IQ" is directly proportional to the amount of time you actually spend sailing in situations that are a little challenging (which will be every time out at first ).

Take all the ASA courses you can, but, back it up with a lot of sailing between.

Charter companies want to make money. They often let boats go out with sailors that probably do not know what they are doing.

[nolatom]

I'm biased in favor of monohulls. Learn on one first, then you can try out multihulls. As a pilot, you'll appreciate the way a good monohull will go upwind using the the sail-airfoils.

I'd say you need to sail in varying conditions, and varying boats, a couple of weekends a month for at least a year. Try to get a lesson or a private captained charter somewhere in there, just to make sure you're not learning bad habits early. You'll already know most of what you need to about navigation. Maybe take a Power Squadrons or USCG auxiliary course too.

[Hudsonian]

You havee overestimated the skill and experience required to charter. The charter companies expect only minimal competance. If you can raise, lower, and trim the sails; set anchor; and get away from anchor you should be fine. Many chartering boats in the VI never raise their sails. If the charter company has doubts they may require you to demonstrate a few skills or hire a captain for a day. When my wife and I first chartered a 32' sloop for a week our experience was limited to sailing a 17' sloop and we had no certifications. I understood coastal piloting but had no formal navigation training. The charterer said we'd be fine and we were.

Given your sensible focus on safety, by the time that you've achieved adequate proficiency to feel comfortable with your wife aboard you'll almost be be ready to charter. The critical test will be, "Is she comfortable with you at the helm?"

You can learn to raise, lower, and efectively trim the jib and mainsail on all points of sail in three or four days. As you start to practice those skills, you'll quickly get a sense of how long it will take you to get comfortable. If you have any interest and opportunity, crewing on a raceboat will develop your skills rapidly.

[jmjatlanta]

Thanks for the replies. Please keep them coming. Based on what I'm reading here and elsewhere on the web, I believe I am overestimating the education, and perhaps underestimating the experience required.

I'm getting the feeling that getting a certification may not count for much.

In your opinion, would I be more apt to be approved for renting a sailboat big enough to sleep 4 comfortably if (assuming I demonstrated competence during a "checkout"):

a) I had just completed my ASA certification.

or

b) I had logged 3 weeks in the last 6 months, training on a boat captained by an instructor with credentials.

I guess contacting a company that rents these things (and is not affiliated with a school) would give me a more accurate answer. But I am interested in your thoughts.

[nolatom]

Originally Posted by jmjatlanta

Thanks for the replies. Please keep them coming. Based on what I'm reading here and elsewhere on the web, I believe I am overestimating the education, and perhaps underestimating the experience required.

I'm getting the feeling that getting a certification may not count for much.

In your opinion, would I be more apt to be approved for renting a sailboat big enough to sleep 4 comfortably if (assuming I demonstrated competence during a "checkout"):

a) I had just completed my ASA certification.

or

b) I had logged 3 weeks in the last 6 months, training on a boat captained by an instructor with credentials.

I guess contacting a company that rents these things (and is not affiliated with a school) would give me a more accurate answer. But I am interested in your thoughts.

probably b), if they know what they're doing. Because you have much more tiller time than ASA, which may give you only 12 -16 hours of group instruction, compared to the 21 days you're describing.

And I have a 100-ton capt's license and teach ASA basic keelboat (your "a" option) part-time, but if someone told me he could do either of your options, i'd tell him to save his money and go for b), assuming the captain and his credentials equated to a good instructor with good sailing habits, on a decent-sailing boat.

That said, you would want your captain to give you a letter, or something describing what you did--otherwise you're just telling them, "I sailed with this guy, he was good", as opposed to an ASA card, which is at least in writing.

[LakeSuperiorGeezer]

I think sailing is harder than flying; you have to know more since you are on your own. On an airplane, if something fails, you have redundant systems. On a sailboat you fix it or do without. If you are on a sailboat and lightening strikes, you can loose all your electronics including GPS. Can you use a sextant or how good are your dead reckoning skills on water? If the weather turns bad on a voyage of several days, you have to deal with it on a boat, but in an airplane you are going with a more dependable short term weather report and you are going a hundred times faster so you just divert with the necessary fuel already planed out. Also, if your engine quits coming in with either boat or airplane your handling skills are really going to be tested. The hardest thing I found about both flying and sailing are the landings, especially if the weather is acting up. Smashing into a dock can be hard on the boat, gets everybody's attention and advice, and could make your wife reconsider sailing with you. If you restrict yourself to fair weather sailing in areas you know then OK sailing is easier. As for ASA classes or someone else, it just depends on how good the teacher is for you. With classes, the instructor has to deal with differing skill levels for the several students and usually teaches to the lowest skilled person, but there is a set curriculum where hopefully the necessary items are covered. With one on one, the instructor assesses the ability of only one student and teaches specifically to their weaknesses and you learn more and faster. You also have to sail more than once a week or your body and mind will forget what you learned the previous week. You need to practice; the reflexes need to be developed. Join a yacht club that has club boats you can practice on, or buy a keel sailboat between 19 and 22 feet that's in good condition, keep it in the water ready to go so that you do not spend a lot of time rigging it each time you sail, and have reefing so you can go out under different conditions and go out more often because you are less dependent on nice weather each day you want to sail.

[Barquito]

I'd then like to make the jump to the Bahamas.

If you are talking about chartering from the Bahamas, no problem. If you are talking about chartering in Florida and sailing TO the Bahamas, that should require more experience. Keep in mind you can always find someone who has bought a boat on Saturday and set off around the world on Monday. Just not a very good idea.