Getting my Sea Legs on Lake Erie

[JazzmanSailor]

I've been wanting to sail all my life and I think this is my year. After wrestling cancer to the ground last year, I've decided that putting off doing the things you really want to do in life is foolish.

I'm planning to take a basic keelboat course this summer, and I'd like to get my first sailboat. Here are my needs:

• Daysailing on Lake Erie
• Easy to sail singlehandedly
• Comfortable for four
• A modest cabin with a head
• Easy to learn on and handle
• Able to comfortably handle Lake Erie "chop"

I'm thinking of an older boat that I can maybe pick up for a few thousand dollars. I'm seeing a lot of used Catalinas, Hunters and O'days in this area. I expect I'd have to put some money into a boat like that after the purchase, but any light you can shed on what the typical upgrade and renovation needs of an older boat in that price range might be would be helpful.

I'm also wondering about size. Would a boat in the 22-23' range be easier to learn on, or do I need something bigger for Lake Erie?

Any suggestions about a boat, or just generally how to approach this would be appreciated. Thanks for your input.

[sailingdog]

Lake Erie, like any of the Great Lakes, is more an inland freshwater sea than it is really a lake. As such, having a bigger boat is probably a good idea, since it can get awfully nasty in a hurry and if you're caught out in it....the bigger boat will take better care of you. You'd also be hard pressed to fit four people comfortably on a 22-23' boat for more than a couple of hours.

I'd point out that you want to buy a good boat at a good price and that buying a cheap boat is generally a pretty expensive way to get into boating. Spending a little more money to get a boat in decent shape is generally far less expensive in time and money than getting the exact same boat in poor shape and refitting/refurbishing it.

That said, there are a lot of boats out there that will handle what you're looking to do. I'd look for something in the 26-30' range. Be aware that keeping and maintaining a boat is a fairly expensive thing to do. A slip for the season can be $1000 or more, depending on the size of the boat, the location of the marina and the amenities it offers.

IMHO, a better idea, rather than buying a boat immediately, is to join a sailing club and get some time in on various boats so you get a feel for what kind of boat you want to buy. From your OP it doesn't sound like you have much sailing experience at all, and getting time in on different design boats will be helpful. Many sailing schools allow students to use their boats for an annual or monthly membership fee.

I'd also welcome you to Sailnet and suggest you read the POST in my signature to help you get the most of your time here.

[JazzmanSailor]

Sailingdog,

Thank you for taking the time to offer such a thoughtful response.

Lake Erie is very much like an inland freshwater sea, and while I'm not an experienced sailor, I sure know how choppy it can get. That's why I raised the question about how much boat was too little boat. I'd like something that I can comfortably manage single-handedly primarily for daysailing, but something that's big enough for that lake. I'm a little reluctant about docking a bigger boat by myself, but maybe some training will alleviate that.

I certainly want a good boat at a good price; that's definitely the goal. I expect to have to put some money into an older boat, and if I can spend more to get a boat that needs less, that all goes into the equation. Many of the ones I'm seeing advertised look like they'll need some work, but if I can spend a few thousand more and get something that's ready for the water, so much the better. I'll keep an open mind about that. It seems to be a buyers market, so when the time comes I'll keep an eye out for something in nice shape.

I think I'm fairly well prepared for the costs of dockage and storage, although it's hard to know just what you'll end up spending on maintenance, and insurance costs are still a mystery to me. Here again though, a boat in better shape would clearly be worth some extra money up front.

I love the sailing club idea, although I don't know of one in the Cleveland area. I'll check around and try to find one. If not, I may get the bareboat certification and just charter a boat three or four times my first season. It's probably no more expensive than dockage, storage and maintenance for a year. We'll see. You're right; I have little sailing experience. Gaining experience on somebody else's boat might be a plus.

Thanks again for your feedback. There are a million things to think through with all this. Every little bit of information helps.

[thehardaground]

Instead of sailing club think yacht club. You'll find lots of them. Early spring might be a good time to show up in "less than stellar" clothing and see if you can give someone a helping hand doing some pre-launch projects. This will 1) get you out sailing and 2) give you some experience as to what to expect once you become a boat owner. From personal experience 22-24' boat are perfectly fine on the Lake, the only real issue you will have is that is small for 4 people comfortably. Once you introduce them to racing and how to hike properly there will probably be room for 5 or 6. In Cleveland you will also have the opportunity to stay inside the wall on those especially wonderful Lake Erie days.

[JazzmanSailor]

Good thought on the yacht club. When the weather breaks I'll do some hanging out at the marina down the street where I'd like to dock a boat. It's about five minutes away.

It sounds like something larger than a 25' boat is going to be better for me, although I'm a little reluctant about docking a bigger boat alone. But if comfort for four and handling the choppy waters better is the trade-off, I guess I'll adapt.

Thanks for the input.

[bljones]

We sail a 23 footer on Lake Erie, and there have been a few times when I wished for a couple more feet of waterline... but not often. Find the BEST boat you can find in your price range, and worry about everything else after that.

[JazzmanSailor]

A 23 footer, huh? And you're not getting beat up by the chop too badly? Does having a boat that size cause you to choose your sailing days a lot more carefully, and skip sailing on some of the less than ideal days?

[CalebD]

I'll recommend a Tartan 27' but I am biased. They were also made near Cleveland.
Older, cheaper, but no less expensive.

[Barquito]

I was in the same position last year. Looking for a boat that I felt would be safe enough for Lake Michigan, and not cost a fortune. I had a Catalina 22 on a smaller lake that worked fine. I felt the Bristol 27 I found would be comfortable enough on all but really bad days on Lake Michigan. Cost-wise, it had about everything required to sail, but, almost everything needs to be updated. It was about $6000 and I will probably put about that much again into it in the next few years. $2000 might get you into a 22' boat that needs a bit of work to be safe and comfortable. In our harbor in Milwaukee, there are a lot of boats in the 22-25' range, but, a lot more in the 27-30' range.

Just my $.02 (but, my Governor wants to lower that to $.0176)

[bljones]

Jazz,
One of the things you will quickly learn is that to every sailing question, there is only one answer-
"it depends".

It depends on displacement, hull shape, LWL rather than LOA, wind direction more than wind strength, windage above waterline, crew and skipper comfort, experience, and skill.

Here's the way it usually works- you buy a boat- you sail in light air, you sail in heavy air, you sail in really stupid air that you had no absolutely no business being in, you scare yourself into not leaving the dock if the leaves are rustling, you learn how to reef, you discover that REEFING EARLY makes sailing a lot more fun, and your confidence level grows... until you get stupid again and scare yourself, and then you figure out how to solve the problem and...

The skipper is more important than the boat. There is a sailor on our dock who is too green to know any better, who sails a 17' Siren in any weather. If he can leave the harbour, he worries about how to get back later. Meanwhile, I know other sailors who have 36 footers who bitch about how few absolutely perfect sailing days there are. They pay $3200 for a slip that they leave four days a season, so they gripe that they could save a lot of money by renting a boat when they want to sail.

You start with an empty cup of experience and a full barrel of luck. The trick is to fill your cup before the barrel runs dry.
Come on over to the north side of the lake. we'll get you out on the water and you can see what you think.