Identifying windward boat

[davidpm]

Rule 13 (d)
(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

It is clear that the intent is that once a collision situation has arisen it is not possible for a burdened vessel to shift the burden to the other vessel without eliminating the threat.

So it would be likely that any kind of skullduggery such as popping the engine into neutral at the last instant and saying "I'm a sail boat"
Turning the helm hard at the last instant and saying "I'm not overtaking I'm crossing"
And the one PL just explained which is throwing the boom over and saying. "Look at me I'm on starboard" would all fall under the category of "da judge dona like dat"

[jackdale]

Just to follow up with David's comments

1) There is no right of way in Colregs with one exception in the Inland Rules.

2) There are stand-on vessels and give-way vessels and vessels that must keep clear. All have obligations.

3) When determining what to do the questions to be asked are

Sail or power?
If sail, what tack? (determined by boom position)



If different tacks, port gives way to starboard.



If same tack, windward gives way to leeward



If overtaking, overtaking vessel keeps clear.



If, on port tack, unsure of other vessel's tack, keep clear.

None of this absolves you of the responsibility to avoid a collision; this is the prime directive.

[puddinlegs]

Originally Posted by davidpm

Rule 13 (d)
(d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

It is clear that the intent is that once a collision situation has arisen it is not possible for a burdened vessel to shift the burden to the other vessel without eliminating the threat.

So it would be likely that any kind of skullduggery such as popping the engine into neutral at the last instant and saying "I'm a sail boat"
Turning the helm hard at the last instant and saying "I'm not overtaking I'm crossing"
And the one PL just explained which is throwing the boom over and saying. "Look at me I'm on starboard" would all fall under the category of "da judge dona like dat"

David, it doesn't work that way when racing under the ISAF rule you quoted. No motors after the warning signal before the start.
For most purposes, Jack's diagram explains things clearly.

[emoney]

After reading this entire thread in one setting, it becomes painfully clear as to why so many never read rule books. Since I don't race, I don't have a dog in this hunt and will bow out now, gracefully. However, I will add that the ultimate rule that supercedes all others, is "crash avoidance is everyone's responsibility" :-). Carry on.....

[MikeWhy]

I also don't race, and am of two minds on this. First, if you're not using the full race course to best advantage, you'll lose to someone who is. I can see how combing the rules and changes continually can become a full time obsession. On the other hand, taken to its ultimate conclusion, close quarters buoy racing leaves only rules hairsplitting to differentiate between the winner and second place. Good Gawd, is that still fun? I'll never know...

[jackdale]

Some links for those interested

Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road

Navigation Rules Online

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/C.R.C.,_c._1416.pdf

Sailtrain: IRPCS, Colregs, Rules of the Road, International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea for sail and motor yachts.

[puddinlegs]

Originally Posted by MikeWhy

I also don't race, and am of two minds on this. First, if you're not using the full race course to best advantage, you'll lose to someone who is. I can see how combing the rules and changes continually can become a full time obsession. On the other hand, taken to its ultimate conclusion, close quarters buoy racing leaves only rules hairsplitting to differentiate between the winner and second place. Good Gawd, is that still fun? I'll never know...

Arrrrrgh! I just had sailnet log me out while posting a long answer to your post, Mike. Here's the cliffnote's answer...

Racing is about many things: sail trim/boatspeed, tactics vis a vis the course (wind, current, tide, windshifts), tactics vis a vis other competitors (yes, here the rules come into play. Every sport has them. They provide the framework, nothing more, nothing less) It takes years to become passably good at racing, and many more to be consistently good. First you have to have boat speed, then you have to be in the right position on the course. If you don't have those two, being a rules fanatic/expert will never get you on the podium, or even racing respectably well. Mike, If you were local, I'd invite you out. I think you'd enjoy it much more than you imagine, but if you're happy never knowing, well, you'll just never know.

[puddinlegs]

Originally Posted by davidpm

Mr. Puddin

You are using the terms in a way I think we all understand but I for one have not heard before.
I have heard of:
Close-hauled and broad-reach as points of sail.
A starboard tack indicating that my boom is over the port side of the boat.
Executing a gibe where the stern of my boat goes through the wind.

I have not however heard of being on a "starboard gybe" which by its context seems to mean something between a run and an beam reach with the boom to port.
It certainly has a symmetric elegance if the the opposite is starboard tack.

Not saying it is incorrect but can you point to some other similar usage. I have not seen this usage before.

We use it around here a lot. When you're in overlapping fleets of boats of many different sizes and speeds, boats sailing to weather/beating/close hauled on starboard or port tack crossing with boats going downwind, the words 'starboard or port gybe helps us identify boats coming at us downwind (most likely with a spinnaker up), vs. crossing with another boat going upwind. For the sake of some clarity of my usage, any boat sailing lower than a beam reach is on starboard or port gybe. Beam reach and above, starboard or port tack. Simple like mud!

[MikeWhy]

Probably a whole lot more than I'm letting on. I do appreciate the invite, and the time and thought in even your abbreviated version. Believe me that has to remain something I'll never know first hand.

[decatur1945]

JackDale: Those are great diagrams and I know I've seen them somewhere before. I teach public boating safety classes and wonder where I might find them.

Thanks