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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2011
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I would do the OPB (other peoples boat) thang if you can.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointy_End View Post

I have a few other random questions that I haven't found the answer to:

- Most boats I've looked at online seem to have a head, although some seem to have those portable chemical toilets. I'm assuming that a proper head is preferable, but how does one typically empty the holding tank?
First, as a fellow BC-er let me welcome you to the forum!

In BC a holding tank can be emptied either at a pumpout station, or by emptying the tank overboard if a) the boat is so equipped, and b) you are sufficiently away from any shore (I believe it's 3 NM(?)..) This makes it difficult to legally do so anywhere in the Gulf Islands or Desolation... essentially you need to be part way across Juan de Fuca or Georgia Strait. Still, this is really the most practical setup. Also, many popular anchorages have recently been designated 'no discharge zone' - technically voluntary - but people are beginning to get the message. Many older boats that may not have a holding tank are/should be getting retrofitted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointy_End View Post
- Some boats come with a dingy, but what is the preferred option for stowing it? Lashing it to the deck looks like it might make the deck cramped on a boat that size. What about towing it? How much would that slow me down?
Dinghy stowage is a matter choice, influenced by the type and size. Small inflatables are often 'roll-up' versions. It's a bit of a chore but really only takes about 5 minutes to stow them, maybe 10 minutes to pump up and deploy. The package for a 8 footer is about a foot square and 3-4 feet long.

On a 25-27 footer you may get such an inflatable stowed upside down on the foredeck, but if you don't have a headsail furler it will interfere with sailhandling, and will most certainly interfere with dock line handling and anchoring.

Towing dinghies is certainly do-able, with certain precautions.. we never tow with an engine attached, nor in strong crosswinds. In especially large seas towing can be problematic too, of course. Island cruising it is rarely a problem although some dinghies can tend to fill with splash and spray and get heavy - even end up swamping (REALLLY SLOOOOWWW!) It is possible to leave the drain plug open to get rid of the water, but you must remember to put it back in when stopped.

Some hard dinghies can be towed easily, or stowed but they will be harder on the deck and the boat, generally heavier to deal with. A reasonable compromise (but less stable) option would be the plastic Walker Bay style.

We use small (10 foot) kayaks almost exclusively unless we have guests, then we deploy our roll-up. Everyone makes their own choices here, as in so many other aspects of boating.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2011
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learned crewing on 19 footer, then 27 footer, the 23.
Owned a snark 11 ft, sunfish, 14 foot, then capri 14.2, then now my 22 foot capri.

I worked my way up, and what he says is RIGHT. The 14.2 was as unforgiving a boat I have ever sailed, and it sailed like mad! I got tired of fighting it in the wind trying to keep myself dry. I wanted the same boat with a keel... in lieu of not finding one, I decided to upgrade in size and take more people with me.

If you can't go small, then smaller works. Cat 22 is a good choice.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
...

OK, now, go out an buy that little 20-something-foot "yacht" --- no one ever takes my dinghy advice. Why should you be the first?
I appreciate the idea of learning on a dinghy and I'm sure it's probably the best way, it just doesn't hold that much appeal for me. I realize that may be the equivalent of saying "I want to play the piano but I don't want to practice scales because they're boring".

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Originally Posted by TQA View Post
There is a BIG diference between a 22 footer and a 27 footer. The first is easy to trailor sail and fix on your driveway, the latter you are in to marinas and boatyards.

2 up a Catalina 22 Oday 22 or similar will give you lots of fun and can be overnighted in quite comfortably.

4 up you want something like a Catalina 27 try to find one with an inboard diesel. It will be easier to resell. This will feel more like a big boat and is likely to have a proper toilet with holding tank.
That's a really good point about there being a big difference between a 22 footer and a 27 footer.

I don't really have a driveway to store/repair a boat, so I think it's going to be in a marina either way (or a mooring buoy perhaps).

Is there really that much difference, from a "learning to sail perspective" on these two classes?

~22ft Pros/Cons as I see them right now:

Pros:
Cheaper to purchase
Easier to sail?
Lower Moorage fees
Requires smaller, cheaper engines

Cons:
Non-existent or sub-standard heads (ie portable chemical toilets)
Headroom - I've never been on a boat this size, but at almost 6' tall I'm thinking that <5ft headroom won't be comfortable.

I've seen 2 or 3 Catalina 27s (early and late '70's) listed locally, but none of them had a diesel. Also they seemed pricy to me; 2 of them were asking $7k each and one was asking $9k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by groggy View Post
...

OP: take classes, or if they are really winding down as you say, do some online self education on the basics of sailing and get some sailing on other peoples boats until classes start again. You would want to know enough about sailing to at least sea trial any potential purchase.
That actually brings up another question: Is sea trialing a common request prior to closing the deal? Like if I was buying a used car and asked for a test drive?

Thanks all, this is great info
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2011
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In this size range, is a swing keel preferable to a fixed (or full) keel boat...?
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidd View Post
In this size range, is a swing keel preferable to a fixed (or full) keel boat...?
All else being equal, a fixed keel boat will almost always be a better all around performer. A swing keel in small keel boats allows easier launching/trailering. In larger boats, it allows access to shallower water.

In a few larger boats, a swing keel is used to play with the trade-offs between having less wetted surface area with the keel up, and a deeper (higher aspect) underwater foil with the keel down. However, the added complexity (and maintenance) of a swing keel usually isn't worth the slight performance advantage over a fixed keel.
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2011
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Welcome to SN. In our area a boat in the 25-27' range is great, and easy to learn to sail on. You might want to hire someone to go out with you the first time, but you'll pick it up pretty fast. Getting a boat with an outboard simplifies things and they are cheaper, but there are trade offs vs. an inboard diesel. You can always sell a boat, just a matter of price:-))
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2011
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Grew up with the Old Man's O'Day 22. He taught me how to sail. Sailed Sunfish & Zuma's. Got tired of getting wet or stranded in the lake with no wind. Bought a '74 Mirage 24 with a 6 hp kicker last month for $1500. The lady i bought it from took ir solo to the Bahamas. Im not that brave yet but glad to know it can make the trip from Jax Fl. One pro of Marinas vs trailoring. After 3 or 4 times spending a hour rigging the boat after getting it off the trailor you will find its too much hassel (like piano scales) and quit. It is alot nicer just walking up to the boat in the marina and heading out for the day. Id suggest a Cat 25. Down here you can get an 80 model for about $2500.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2011
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@Pointy_End since you mention sailing the Gulf Islands, you must also be from down south. Let me guess, Mississippi? I have had a great learning experience sailing my Oday 22. When I was up for buying, I was torn between a really nice Oday 22 and just an ok Catalina 25, my post is on here somewhere too. The Catalina was actually less money too but I went with the Oday and I still have her. Here are some of my thoughts, if you get something under 19ft, you may outgrow it a lot quicker then you think. If you go with one 20ft or bigger, it could be just right. If you go with a 27ft, that very well could be all the boat you will ever need or even want. If you are like me, as you learn to sail, you will start doings things to your boat. It will start with fixing things, just messing with things, then upgrading things, then on to customizing it with some fancy touches. This got addicting to me almost as much as actually sailing! Be advised, this hobby can get a little expensive especially if you do get into fixing your boat up to look pretty, but its fun. Also, at least a sailboat burns very little gas. Oh and NO, you are not crazy. You are probably crazy for not buying one and getting into this a long time ago. I wish I would have got into this when I was a teenager, well better now then never.
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailguy40 View Post
@Pointy_End since you mention sailing the Gulf Islands, you must also be from down south. Let me guess, Mississippi?
I think he's referring to the Gulf Islands in the Canadian PNW...
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