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-   -   sailing a C30 is just like a Sunfish, right? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/learning-sail/80867-sailing-c30-just-like-sunfish-right.html)

paintpollz 11-17-2011 01:35 PM

sailing a C30 is just like a Sunfish, right?
 
sailing a C30 is just like a Sunfish, right? :laugher

I'll be taking lessons in the Spring hopefully. I can't wait to learn on a bigger boat. My goal is to work my way up to a 25' before I seal the deal on a boat. I'm looking towards 25-30' boats after I get a year or two of experience and training. Any suggestions for boats similar to the c30 would be great. I'm looking for a nice daysailer and weekender.

Thanks!

BubbleheadMd 11-18-2011 09:43 AM

The difference between a dinghy and a heavy keelboat, is that everything happens more slowly, but has more force behind it. A heavy keel boat is less sensitive to every little puff and shift that would require instant correction on a dinghy.

Generally, if you learn to sail on a dinghy, it'll help you be a better keelboat sailor.

I started with a 25' boat, and upgraded to 30 feet. The difference in handling and difficulty, was not so great that you should feel the need to do this. I upgraded sooner than I expected, because I wanted a boat with better performance, not because I was worried about handling a 30 footer.

Learn to sail on a dinghy, bum a few rides on keelboats to get used to the difference, then go out and buy your 30 footer. You'll be ok.

paintpollz 11-18-2011 10:29 AM

dammit I love a response like that. Thanks bubblehead!

I've ripped my grandparents sunfish around for 20 years. Not on the ocean tho. Got some really good memories on it, and some good experience I guess. Really not that hard to get going on one of those things.

A lot of people have been telling me to start with a 22' footer, but I couldn't imagine being on something smaller than a 25'. A 30' would be ideal. I also love working with my hands, and I have good technical skills, so I think I could take care of 3/4 of the maintenance.

I've only sailed on larger boats a couple of times. I figure if I take some lessons on bigger boats, or try an find someone to go out with, I'd at least start off on the right foot.

mstern 11-18-2011 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd (Post 798178)
The difference between a dinghy and a heavy keelboat, is that everything happens more slowly, but has more force behind it. A heavy keel boat is less sensitive to every little puff and shift that would require instant correction on a dinghy.

Generally, if you learn to sail on a dinghy, it'll help you be a better keelboat sailor.

I started with a 25' boat, and upgraded to 30 feet. The difference in handling and difficulty, was not so great that you should feel the need to do this. I upgraded sooner than I expected, because I wanted a boat with better performance, not because I was worried about handling a 30 footer.

Learn to sail on a dinghy, bum a few rides on keelboats to get used to the difference, then go out and buy your 30 footer. You'll be ok.

Amen, brother. Exactly on target. A couple of sails on any keelboat, and you will be golden. Your steepest learning curve will be manuvering under power and docking; your Sunfish experience here is useless, and your 25 foot experience will not be all that helpful in learning how to dock your 30 footer. The 25 footer will have an outboard auxilliary; manuvering with an outboard is completly different than with a fixed prop. With an outboard, you can move the prop around, which give you big flexibility. Additionally, the momentum of a 30 foot boat is a quantam leap greater than that of a 25 footer. Don't get me wrong; docking practice on a 25 footer will not be wasted, but its just a lot easier to do than on a 30.

Another vote for going right to the 30 footer if that is your ultimate plan.

kwm 11-18-2011 10:57 AM

Don't buy a boat smaller than you want. In less than a year you will be trying to sell the smaller boat so you can go get the one you want. Find someone to crew with to gain experience and then buy the C30.

BarryL 11-18-2011 10:57 AM

lots of boats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paintpollz (Post 797905)
sailing a C30 is just like a Sunfish, right? :laugher

I'll be taking lessons in the Spring hopefully. I can't wait to learn on a bigger boat. My goal is to work my way up to a 25' before I seal the deal on a boat. I'm looking towards 25-30' boats after I get a year or two of experience and training. Any suggestions for boats similar to the c30 would be great. I'm looking for a nice daysailer and weekender.

Thanks!

I hear it all the time, but, IMHO, I don't think that sailing a sunfish or any dingy is much like sailing a large (~30') keelboat. Yes, the concept of sailing and sail trim is the same, but that's about it. The sails are different (just a main vs. main and headsail), how you trim is different (winches vs hauling a line), tacking is different (release one sheet and trim the other vs just turning), steering is different (wheel [usually] vs tiller). And we haven't even started discussing anchoring, docking, etc.

Anyway, I do believe that if you can handle a dingy you can learn to handle a larger boat. But be prepared for a big learning curve.

Regarding your second question about what boats are similar to a Catalina 30, there are many. Popular brands on the east coast include Pearson, Newport, O'day, Hunter, Beneteau, O'day, C&C. Other common boats include Tartan, Sabre, S2, Grampian, Ericcson, Islander, etc.

If you will be mostly daysailing with the occasional over-night stay, then a boat in the 25-28' range would be great for 2-4 people. Some particular models to consider are Catalina 27, Newport 27, 272 and 28, O'day 28, Tartan 28, Sabre 28, etc.

You should be able to get a decent boat for 10K. For 15K you should be able to get a real nice boat. For 20K you should be able to get a real real nice boat. Boats with inboard diesels are worth more than outboards or gas inboard, but those can be OK too.

For overnight comfort, consider boats that have pressure hot and cold water, AC and DC electrical systems.

Good luck,
Barry

paintpollz 11-18-2011 11:01 AM

Mstern, thanks for the response, and for bringing up the point of difference in characteristics b/t the in/out. That had not been a factor in my decision. One concern I have with purchasing a 30 was maintenance on the inboard. I do have DIY mechanical skills for someone whos not a mechanic, although I've never ripped a motor out of a car. I've factored in all costs of owning a sailboat, except for the overhaul/maintenance of the engine (especially and inboard). Maybe someone could fill in and inform me a little on what to expect from these 3 cyl diesels, and what to look for upon purchase. Yearly costs, receipts, etc.

Also, I plan keeping the boat in a mooring. Is there a "procedure" when you are on your approach?

nolatom 11-18-2011 11:33 AM

Think about a used Ranger 29 too, better performance under sail than the Catalina and construction a little more solid.

Mooring buoy approach is much simpler than a slip, since there's no such thing as a 'crosswind' and you don't have to sweat prop-walk in reverse. Just head into the wind, pick up the pennant (which can have a floating antenna on the end for this purpose, make fast, and drift or back downwind a little. Piece of cake under power, and almost as easy under sail--douse the jib before you head up, then drop the main once the pennant has a little strain on it.

BubbleheadMd 11-18-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryL (Post 798213)
I hear it all the time, but, IMHO, I don't think that sailing a sunfish or any dingy is much like sailing a large (~30') keelboat.
<snip> Good luck,
Barry

You're right, it isn't. The purpose behind learning how to sail a dinghy first is to just get the fundamentals down, and to make you sensitive to the forces the affect the boat.

When you take this sensitivity to a big keelboat, you tend to react faster, and sail better because you're more sensitive to what's happening.

People like me, who learned to sail a 25 footer first and then sail a dinghy, find themselves flipped into the drink when sailing a dinghy, because they failed to react with the mainsheet or the tiller fast enough. :o

paintpollz 11-18-2011 12:00 PM

Barry, thanks for the list of boats. I'll have some research to do this weekend. My budget is around 20k. If I could find a nice one for around 10-15K, well I figure my first year expenses are free! Hot/cold pressure would be a luxury, as well as AC/DC. The boats that you mentioned I've already done a little research on. I havent seen many with pressurized hot/cold. Do most have AC/DC? And for my price range, will I be able to afford these luxuries?

Nolatom, thanks for the explanation for mooring approach. Ill think of it like landing an airplane, into the headwind. Trying to get the general concepts down before stepping on the boat is important to me.

Bubblehead, I figured the dinghy would mean nothing when compared to the bigger boats. I just brought it up because it helped me understand sailing, and it was a fun experience for me. Can't wait to get on a bigger boat.

Suggestions on how to get more involved with a sailing community?


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