heeling, weather helm and rudder control - Page 2

mdougan · #11 09-30-2003

Many gaff-rigged boats have a downhaul attached to the peak of the gaff. I vaguely remember reading something to the effect that one could use the downhaul cleated to off to one side or the other to induce a twist in the sail by pulling the gaff off-center.

Can you see any advantage in doing this, and if so, which side would you cleat the downhaul on to twist the sail in the appropriate direction?

cmantocrew · #12 11-23-2003

why do we have to get answers to basic sailing questions like what to do when we encounter weather helm in such dramatic ways..just say it in simple terms.. we''re not all circumnavigators nor have 30 years of sailing experience. i realize we have a tendency to overdramitize. we just want answers to basic sailing questions in simple laymans terms..thx for understanding....

aflanigan · #13 11-23-2003

Dear cmanto,

Randolph Bertin asked for help in "better understanding the mechanics of sailing", and said he is "trying to figure out exactly what is going on". I think that''s what most posters were trying to respond to. There probably isn''t a simple, straightforward answer to the question "why do I have excessive weather helm" any more than there is a simple, straightforward answer to the question "why won''t my engine start?" For example, some responses on this topic over the years deal with changing the amount of sail area you have (main vs. jib) on a sloop rigged boat, but this doesn''t apply to a catboat rig, for example. Some responses talk about raking the mast (angling it back or forward), but this obviously won''t work for a boat like a Laser which doesn''t have this capability.

Randolph mentioned angle of attack, so most responders probably assumed he knew or could look up on the internet the meaning of any "technical" words (like stall, drag, torque, etc.) used, and the responses offered look like they give a mix of more technical answers with "bottom line", straightforward advice that doesn''t rely so much on the "why" but gets right to the "how" of dealing with the problem.

I''ll bet a lot of people have posted basic sailing questions on this board in search of answers in simple layman''s terms (what brand of Champagne should I christen my boat with?), and hopefully what they ask for is what they''ll get. Hopefully, Randolph got the answers he was looking for.

Allen Flanigan
Alexandria, VA

Randolph Bertin · #14 11-25-2003

For my part, I was looking for a bit of detail, and received some valuable help--I don''t know that anyone could really answer the question exactly as it is fairly complicated and may have to do with the specifics of my boat geometry/performance. For instance, I found on-line a review of sea-trials for four boats that included the Beneteau F235, which had the following to say:

"Unlike the Schock, which doesn’t mind much it you put its rail down, the Beneteau displays unhappiness in a hurry. Heel this boat a degree too far, and it’ll round up so fast that all the rudders in France (or South Carolina, where the boat is built) won’t help."

Anyway, maybe one of the problems with the Message Boards is that "Learning to Sail" indicates it is "a great place to meet other beginners if you are new to sailing," which implies it is aimed toward novice sailing questions. The beginner may feel intimidated or confused with too much technically advanced information. So, perhaps I posted my question in the wrong place.

However, there doesn''t seem to be a forum, where advanced sailing questions/answers would more naturally fall. And of course, no matter how much sailing one does, it seems, at least in my case, that I am always "Learning to Sail" as there is always more to learn. Is there a need for a different message board geared toward "Those who would like to know/discuss more in depth but are not new to sailing"??

FloridaWriter · #15 12-04-2003

mdougan,

Hauling the gaff to windward will only increase your weather helm. The fact that the gaff natrually falls off the wind helps reduce weather helm. To reduce it further, add fore sails; don''t reef them first. If you have done that, tighten them further to flatten them and let your main out a little, even if it starts luffing--that will reduce your helm. A further reduction would be to pinch up closer to the wind if you have to. If the tiller is far over and there is lots if weather helm, than it''s time to reef the main first. That should ease the weather helm and reduce heeling. A second reef scenario would be to then reduce the fore sail (s) to some extent.

mdougan · #16 06-04-2004

Thanks to all on comments for reducing weather helm on a gaff-rigged boat... I tried out the suggestions at the end of last season, reefing the main before dropping or reducing headsails worked like a charm... I haven''t tried the trick of easing the peak halyard to quickly depower the sail, but I will at the next opportunity...

albertorro · #17 08-23-2004

I''ve one rudder problem, it has a vibration and there is too much play in it, the nylon screws don''t press enough to keep it on it''s site.
I wont know if some think can be done to be confident with this important part of my First 235 I''ve just bought.

Randolph Bertin · #18 09-02-2004

To address the rudder problem, you might take a look at a couple of websites devoted to the First235 (the first of which has a link to an article discussing various rudder issues and modifications):

http://www.beneteau-owners.com/235/f235.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~beneteau235/

And there is also a forum specifically for Beneteau owner that you could pose a question about how to firm up the screw contact with the rudder.

Randolph Bertin · #19 09-02-2004

...forgot to include the address of the Beneteau owner''s forum:

http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/menunew.tpl?fno=42

39512 · #20 09-03-2004

Excessive mast rake can also increase weather helm. Conversely, too little rake can increase leeward helm, which is dangerous. Rake is a fairly easy adjustment to make provided you have a sail plan. Hang a weight just off the deck from the main halyard. Measure the distance between the halyard and gooseneck.

Note the sailplan does not show the underbody of the boat; it shows the designed float line. Using a square, place one side of the square on the float line and the other on the backside of the mast head. Using dividers, pick off the distance between the side of the square and the gooseneck. Scale it up and you have the designed rake. Adjust accordingly.

Remember, at all angles the rudder is nothing more than a brake.

You have received excellent advice from the other posters. My post may or may not be one element toward reducing weather helm on the First. It is worth checking.