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  #21  
Old 01-27-2012
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we put in a purchase offer sight unseen, we saw lots of pics though. We looked at about 100 pics of the boat and the previous owners survey, and a detailed list of inventories. I talked to the PO and them seem ok, and they were using a reputable broker. Talked to the broker and he seemed like a nice guy. We put an offer in contingent on the boat being dropped in the water, it floating, the engine running, and the inventory all being there. It worked out fine.

Buying a boat is a crap shoot, a surveyor doesn't reduce risks, and if there is a problem down the road they will be no where to be seen. The only reason to survey a boat is to get insurance, and no one will insure you anyways.

Be diligent where you can be, and take a chance. Oh and lowball, making an offer on a boat that won't be gone over by a surveyor or need a test sail, and is being done quickly with cash, holds value for the seller.

If you take all these courses and trips you'll never have enough money to go cruising.
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  #22  
Old 01-27-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeandthed View Post

Be diligent where you can be, and take a chance. Oh and lowball, making an offer on a boat that won't be gone over by a surveyor or need a test sail, and is being done quickly with cash, holds value for the seller.

If you take all these courses and trips you'll never have enough money to go cruising.
Of course a no-survey offer holds value for the seller because there are probably problems with the boat that could cancel the sale.
When buying your boat sight unseen, why did you bother to read the PO's survey if they are so worthless?
Taking a few classes from the CG Aux or Power Squadron is a very minor amount of money and if they can't afford that, they sure can't afford a boat and those classes are worth the time and minor expense.
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Last edited by chuck53; 01-27-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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  #23  
Old 01-27-2012
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All you need in a purchase offer is an out. (Ex: satisfied with test sail.) If you find something wrong with a boat, you can get out, irregardless of origin by saying you were unsatisfied with the test sail.

Surveys are useless, but if someone isn't willing to provide you with it when you ask as a potential buyer it says more about the seller than the boat.

Buying a boat is a crap shoot. You can buy a boat with teak decks that has zero leaks and lots of useful life left in them, and you can buy a boat with a glass deck that leaks like a sieve. Try to get as much info about the owner as you can, because that info will tell you more about the boat than the results of a survey. Surveys are for insurance companies to valuate replacement costs.

What I did was price in having to fix all the usual problems (decks, rigging, engine), and that's how I justified my lowball. We negotiated from there. Plus if you ask all the questions and they answer them, they don't know whether you're going to get a surveyor or not, so it's not in their interest to lie to you. If surveyors catch everything why are there so many situations of people fixing boat issues that they didn't foresee?

Like poker, negotiating the purchase of a boat is more about reading the person across the table than the cards.

Sorry about the courses comment, I grew up in a family of many generations of people working on the ocean. It is more important that you respect the sea and leave your ego on land than take a course about "the right way to do things". Just take your time and get to know your boat.



I digress, they wanted to know how to get a boat cheap. That's how I did it, and it worked out just fine. Most college grads can pick up sailing and boat navigation easily enough from books, youtube, and people at the dock. Why pay someone for the same thing unless you need the certificate to appease your insurance company.
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As far as classes go, I'm 58 years old and have been boating my whole life. My grandfather was a fish boat captain with the Menhaden fleet out of Reedville, Va. My father served aboard a CG cutter in the South Pacific during WW II.
I've taken 5 courses in the past 16 years, one with the CG Aux and 4 with the Power Squadron, of which I am a member. All classes were enjoyable, worthwhile and I learned a few things to boot.
Yes, I learned many years ago that if you don't respect the water, it could cost you big time.
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Old 01-27-2012
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Ok, chuck53 is right don't take my advice, I'm just the same age as these guys and doing what they want to do.

All I'm really saying is take some chances, it's better to be "young, dumb and sailing, than old grey and failing"
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Quote:
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Ok, chuck53 is right don't take my advice, I'm just the same age as these guys and doing what they want to do.

All I'm really saying is take some chances, it's better to be "young, dumb and sailing, than old grey and failing"
OK, let's back up. No where did I suggest that they shouldn't follow their dream. All I'm suggesting is a pathway to achieve it.
These guys are looking at 29 months until they buy a boat and sail the islands.
29 Months! That's plenty of time to buy a sailing dinghy to get some time on the water. Maybe take a few classes. possibly spend some time on other people's larger boats. And since boating classes aren't always just for newbies, they just might meet some nice sailors willing to take them on their boats.
29 months to learn and get good experience that will make their adventure even more memorable and maybe safer.
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Old 01-27-2012
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I think the party line is to recommend due dilligence in the purchase of a boat. I agree that boats run the spectrum in quality and condition, but that's what the survey is for. With that, the survey is only part of a larger process of vetting potential boats.

I agree with a lot of what YouMeAndTheD is saying about getting out there and following the dream, but failing to hire a surveyor could leave these guys stuck with a dock queen that needs more work than they can afford. Sailing courses are nothing compared to the expense of a boat with a list of hidden issues.

I'm 30, have purchased 4 boats so far, 3 of those were 36 footers. I've sailed the Hawaiian Islands, the Chesepeake, the Atlantic south to Florida, and am outfitting for a year in the Caribbean. I know first hand the dangers associated with skipping out on the marine surveyor. You could have the greatest PO on earth, but reading them doesn't get you much when they've only owned the boat for a year, and that's assuming you'll even be able to talk to the PO. A lot of brokers don't like potential buyers meeting up with the PO.

Just pretend the boat is going to cost 10's of thousands of dollars and act accordingly when purchasing.
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yea, it's all luck and you need to pay a used car salesman er, broker/surveyor cause they both have special powers and extra eyes and fingers and your toooooooooooooo dumb to figure it out on your own . you might as well just stay home and die of old age rather than live it. my bad.

14 year old girls are saiing around the world, alone ! your right your probably not up to the task.
Probably should just forget it ,or buy the boat and never leave the dock for fear of the unknown and all the advice of the other "sailors" you will meet at the extremey affordable USCG and other "classes" be sure to get your west marine card and cuzy.
I listened to self proclaimed sailors for a decade tell me all they new and all the experience blah blah ... then I stopped listening and did what all the naysayers said couldn't or were too sceered to do.
glad I did, met plenty of others doing it on everything imaginabe in every cove,bay,river,canal and inlet from buffalo to tampa (3-4 times) and back .
many of these folks were at it for years and years cruising all over the world some had it all ,some had less than nothing !
families,singles,men,women. some w/ pets,kids.
All kinds, great people,extraordinay experiences .
My only regret is listening to the internet captains telling me what I couldn't do .

please, it's just sailing .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
yea, it's all luck and you need to pay a used car salesman er, broker/surveyor cause they both have special powers and extra eyes and fingers and your toooooooooooooo dumb to figure it out on your own . you might as well just stay home and die of old age rather than live it. my bad.

14 year old girls are saiing around the world, alone ! your right your probably not up to the task.
Probably should just forget it ,or buy the boat and never leave the dock for fear of the unknown and all the advice of the other "sailors" you will meet at the extremey affordable USCG and other "classes" be sure to get your west marine card and cuzy.
I listened to self proclaimed sailors for a decade tell me all they new and all the experience blah blah ... then I stopped listening and did what all the naysayers said couldn't or were too sceered to do.
glad I did, met plenty of others doing it on everything imaginabe in every cove,bay,river,canal and inlet from buffalo to tampa (3-4 times) and back .
many of these folks were at it for years and years cruising all over the world some had it all ,some had less than nothing !
families,singles,men,women. some w/ pets,kids.
All kinds, great people,extraordinay experiences .
My only regret is listening to the internet captains telling me what I couldn't do .

please, it's just sailing .

I hope that wasn't a response to my post. If I read the OP's post correctly, it was something like "we've never done this before, here's what we're thinking of doing, etc". I think recommendations to chose a boat carefully are warranted.

As for the "just get out there and do it" phylosophy, I could not agree more. Do it now, while you can if you're so inclined.

But Joe, you've been around long enough I'm sure you're familiar with Ronnie Simpson's story. He just went out there and did it with no knowledge and look how far he got (about half way).

As for the 16 and 14 year olds, look at the amount of prep work went in to their boats. I haven't seen their budgets, but I garauntee they were significant. These weren't kids who picked a boat and rolled, they had a fair amount of coaching and expert guidance in both outfitting and learning to sail. Now, I'm not saying these guys need sailing instruction. I've never had any, and I haven't balled up a boat yet. I'm just saying that before these kids headed off they and their support teams made sure they were prepared.

I'm not going to get into a debate over whether the OPs should be smart about the money they are looking to spend. I say go for, but be smart about it.
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Last edited by creedence623; 01-27-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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Thanks creedence for saying what I was thinking.
As far as those kids that sail around the world...I'd say they had more than a "fair" amount of training and expert guidance...they had years of it. They probably had more experience at 10 than most of us have at 30 or 40.
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