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  #11  
Old 02-12-2012
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Openly nasty. Gotta giv'm credit for bein honest. It is good advice for me. I've revealed what I was thinking several times. A little poker face won't hurt
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  #12  
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Does bring up a good point tho. I would imagine that some people would probably like to feel good about who they r selling their beloved boat to.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2012
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Ben,

You assume that your strategy worked in your favor because you got the boat for "way less than asking price." Not necessarily a valid argument.

Most boats sell for well below the asking price, so I'm not convinced.

When the time comes to sell our baby, you can bet that the buyer's attitude is going to play a big role in how willing I am to negotiate, and whether or not I'm gonna throw in some or all of the thousands of dollars worth of loose goodies (spares, tools, repair supplies, charts, binos. handheld vhf, nav tools, etc, etc.) simply based on how they come across.

I might also decide to let them know what all my intended maintenance projects are, which could save them the trouble of promulgating their own punch list from scratch.

My own thinking is that since sailing is supposed to be a fun and inclusive sport or lifestyle, you ought to approach it that way even when shopping for a boat. Be respectful, fair, and when necessary firm; you might be surprised what that does for you in the long run.
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2012
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Back to the boat - its not just about size. Are the halyards led to the cockpit or are they on the mast? Tiller or wheel? inboard or outboard? How deep is the water in your area? Looking for speed or comfort? Roller furling jib?

Answer these and you will narrow down your choices considerably.
Find a good surveyor - they are worth the cost.
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2012
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Originally Posted by benjmin View Post
No offence to any of you. But I have as of yet ever met an honest sales person. And as the owner you are an opposing side. When I was shopping I only delt with one owner and that was a mistake because he thought his boat was made of pure gold. And he will keep that boat. Btw he had been trying to sell it for 3 years a local broker informed me. Enough said.

This is a buyers market. And I wanted to make sure the O.P. aware of this. Of course sellers don't want buyers to know this. When I was shopping all the boats I visited had been for sale between 2-6 years.

If you use a broker, the owner will not be there anyway. And the advice I gave keeps the broker from relaying to the owner anything positive after the showing. Which helps when you make a low offer.

Hate me if you want for telling the truth. But brokers informed me of lots of stuff when I was being quiet and not speaking. A boat for sale is a huge financial burden for the owner. They are having to pay slip fees, bottom scraping fees, insurance and property taxes every year. On top of regular maintaince this is money the owner will never see again. Not in this market.

Sailboats are sold for 2 main reasons.
- the owner is in financial trouble = needs money ASAP
- the owner wants a bigger boat = they want to buy said boat ASAP

Now go forth my fellow preowned boat buyers! Go forth and aquire your dream sailboat at record low prices!
Oh, to be young again and positive I knew everything.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2012
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Originally Posted by benjmin View Post
No offence to any of you. But I have as of yet ever met an honest sales person. And as the owner you are an opposing side.
Every time I read stories like this I want to call the broker (for the seller) and buy another boat from him just because he treated us so well.

There are bad apples in every profession. The boat-buying process doesn't have to be combative.
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Old 02-13-2012
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I was in your same situation during the summer of 2010. No sailing experience, little boating experience. We had traveled quite a bit with the kids and decided to something different. We bought a 30 ft CS just as she came out on the hard in the fall of 2010. Spent all winter fixing her up and learning everything i could. Youtube can be your best friend when learning something new. Mainesail will be your other best friend. Docking and maneuvering was alot easier than i feared. Sailing, I'm loving it! I think a 30 footer is perfect for us. If you are confident, sensible and have a grip on common sense GO BIG as you can.
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2012
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When I sell something....anything.....the prospective buyer's attitude and demeanor play heavily into how cooperative I am and willing to deal.

If my prospective buyer is friendly, open, excited and will obviously love my boat, I will most certainly deal with them by knocking money off, tossing in extras....

If my prospective buyer is as you stated you are, I will not deal at all. No money off. Full price. I'm keeping stuff too. You don't want it, fine. Take a hike. I don't deal with A Holes.

I had an old guitar to sell on Craigslist. Got all kinds of low ball, insulting offers. People telling me "why" my price was too high. One guy contacted me about the guitar. He was concerned that it was a little more than he wanted to pay. He was super nice, we had very good back/forth. Turns out he was a band teacher for a local elementary school and wanted an inexpensive guitar for the program.

I gave it to him. No charge.

My point it, if you're the right buyer, I'll deal with you. I may want to sell my stuff, even need to. But I'll eat it and tell you to walk if you're a d1ck.
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjmin View Post
No offence to any of you. But I have as of yet ever met an honest sales person. And as the owner you are an opposing side. When I was shopping I only delt with one owner and that was a mistake because he thought his boat was made of pure gold. And he will keep that boat. Btw he had been trying to sell it for 3 years a local broker informed me. Enough said.

This is a buyers market. And I wanted to make sure the O.P. aware of this. Of course sellers don't want buyers to know this. When I was shopping all the boats I visited had been for sale between 2-6 years.

If you use a broker, the owner will not be there anyway. And the advice I gave keeps the broker from relaying to the owner anything positive after the showing. Which helps when you make a low offer.

Hate me if you want for telling the truth. But brokers informed me of lots of stuff when I was being quiet and not speaking. A boat for sale is a huge financial burden for the owner. They are having to pay slip fees, bottom scraping fees, insurance and property taxes every year. On top of regular maintaince this is money the owner will never see again. Not in this market.

Sailboats are sold for 2 main reasons.
- the owner is in financial trouble = needs money ASAP
- the owner wants a bigger boat = they want to buy said boat ASAP

Now go forth my fellow preowned boat buyers! Go forth and aquire your dream sailboat at record low prices!
Okay, now that I have taken some time and worked through my impulse to smack the stupid out of you (the impulse is still there but the logistics work in your favour. I'm not sure I could justify the months it would take.), I decided I'd try to show you the error of your ways, you know, from a salesperson's point of view.

Yeah, I'm a salesman. Not a sales engineer or and agent or a consultant or broker or whatever, although I have carried all of those titles in my career- I am a professional salesman.

And no one has ever accused me of being dishonest. Except you, of course.

You think your bs "harrumph -with -irritation- when -you- find- a- fault-the-first-guy-who-speaks-loses -this-is-war" tapdance either impresses or intimidates a broker?
He has seen it dozens of times before, and it is all just plain white noise now. He probably stopped listening to your performance after the first "well how much is this gonna cost?"

While you are doing your amateur surveyor routine, the professional broker is doing a professional survey of you. He saw what you are driving, he saw what you are wearing, he saw your shoes, he has asked you qualifying questions that you, boy-wonder, didn't even realize were qualifying questions.


Here's what you missed- the broker is the gatekeeper to the owner, and the deal. Every owner using a broker is using a broker because they don't want to deal with tire kickers, looky-loos, mutterers and amateur poker-players taking pictures with their iphone. The broker brings the offer, the owner evaluates the offer then asks the broker for his opinion.
What do you think the broker thinks of guys like you who learned all of their negotiating skills from re-runs of "Storage Wars"?
Yeah...
he tells the seller, "the guy is a tool, and he's lowballing. He thinks that drama over rust stains means a $10 000 reduction in price, because he told me so while he was impressing me with what a big baller he was and how much he knew about boats. he was also asking about financing and whether a 20% down was necessary, which tells me he's got a shaky FICA score and limited cash.

You know why those boats you've been looking at are still on the market after 2-6 years? Because the seller doesn't have to sell. Or the estate is handling the sale after the owner pased away and it is not a priority.
Emergency sales, hardship sales are the boats that sell in less than 90 days, because the seller NEEDS cash, and those deals are often made before the boat gets advertised on craigslist and yachtworld.


You're correct, it is a buyer's market. But not just any buyer. People often have a greater sentimental attachment to their boats than their homes, and care far more who their baby goes to.

Something to think about- often the seller has bought a bigger boat but stayed in the same marina, club or mooring field, and, if it is hard enough to see somebody on board your old pride and joy, it is even harder if the new owner is a dick. In fact, the old owner's impression of you may colour how everyone else in the place thinks of you. Remember that next time you need to borrow a screwdriver.


BTW, you do see the irony about trying to play charades with a broker, and then sneering that you have never met an "honest salesman"? Every salesman has never met an honest buyer. In fact, most buyers start lying the moment they open their mouths, even regarding simple purchases. When you walk into Old Navy for a new pair of skinny jeans and a sales person walks up to you and asks "may I help you?" Your answer is always a lie. What do the vast majority of shoppers say?
"I'm just looking."
BS- you walked into that store with a reason, a purpose, a particular item in mind.

Next time you deal with a salesperson, think about which one of you tells the first lie.
Faster, ccriders, utchuckd and 4 others like this.
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  #20  
Old 02-13-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaksail View Post
I was in your same situation during the summer of 2010. No sailing experience, little boating experience. We had traveled quite a bit with the kids and decided to something different. We bought a 30 ft CS just as she came out on the hard in the fall of 2010. Spent all winter fixing her up and learning everything i could. Youtube can be your best friend when learning something new. Mainesail will be your other best friend. Docking and maneuvering was alot easier than i feared. Sailing, I'm loving it! I think a 30 footer is perfect for us. If you are confident, sensible and have a grip on common sense GO BIG as you can.
I agree with Oaks,
When I decided to buy a boat I was initially looking in 30' 35' range. Then when I found my YC and started talking to other sailors and a few online friends everyone said "get smaller to learn on" Well I did. Wound up with a very nice Hunter 23, it was a lovely boat, and I liked it for what it was. But I sold it after 11 months and bought my Oday 30, The money I spent on the H23 could gone towards a larger boat at the time. Now that things have changed I may never get a larger then 30' boat but at least I have something I can spend real time on and have the comfort and facilities that make staying on the boat much more enjoyable.
Holding a tiller, reaching over the transom, flipping the gears from fwd to rev and trying to dock was not my idea of fun on a smaller boat.
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