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  #21  
Old 03-12-2012
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can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

I was unable to get to the lake in order to produce photos or attempt suggested methods. Hopefully i will soon. But for now, I do feel part of issue is my main sail, it quite baggy, with perhaps 20 inches of give at the sail foot, if that makes since. Another maybe lately, if there is wind, it's 7 - 15knts creating almost one foot waves or it's very lite around 5knt breeze. So, my guess for now is the baggy older sail, the previous conditions and my current experience. Again, thanks so much for the advice and assistance. I will continue to improve on this matter and save my coins to eventually purchase new main sail.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2012
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older distant images of sail and boat in question.

These are older images of boat taken month ago, which may provide an idea of the issue of unable to sail any closer into true wind than I should with this DS 2. Once I return to lake, I'll post more detail of rig.
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can only tack close reach, can't close-haul-image.jpg  
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbieland View Post
But for now, I do feel part of issue is my main sail, it quite baggy, with perhaps 20 inches of give at the sail foot, if that makes since.
Yeah! That can be a deal breaker right there. W/o the ability to flatten out the main, performace is lost. Great for running before the wind, though.
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  #24  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: older distant images of sail and boat in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbieland View Post
These are older images of boat taken month ago, which may provide an idea of the issue of unable to sail any closer into true wind than I should with this DS 2. Once I return to lake, I'll post more detail of rig.
Have you put a short line to down haul the boom at the mast? Gravity is not enough.
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Old 03-12-2012
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Re: can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

Looks to me that the forestay is loose which makes the sail fuller, so it won't point as high. It also seems very far out if you are beating. Can you get the luff of the main tighter - it looks full hoist but will the tack come down? The downslope of the boom suggests a tight leech so no twist. If in the photo you are beating that close to land, you will in effect be largely sheltered from the wind, so you won't be able to produce much boat speed which would increase the apparent wind and move it ahead enabling you to point higher.
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Old 03-12-2012
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Re: can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

Looking at that picture.. are you 'as close to the breeze as you can get'?

Your jib is far from fully sheeted in if that's the case. The trim looks set properly for a close reach situation...
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  #27  
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Re: can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

You can't get an accurate sense of how well the boat is sailing when you are that close to land and trees and hills. I don't know how big your lake is, but I don't see anywhere within the camera frame where you can expect reasonably unobstructed winds. In terrain like that, the wind doesn't come from one direction, as it does on a big bay or along the coast. It swirls back and forth. When it passes a high hill, it is turned, and when it passes a stand of trees, it is turned again, and when it crosses from land to water, it is turned again. When the wind gusts or lulls, the direction of the apparent wind changes again, and to a very pronounced extent. Skilled, experienced sailors would find it extremely frustrating to sail in that venue. I don't think there's any way of knowing whether you are using good sail trimming and helmsmanship techniques, when you are sailing in such a difficult environment. If you can take the boat someplace where you can sail it in relatively clear, directionally stable air, your sail trimming and helmsmanship will improve quickly. After you develop some skill at sail trim and helmsmanship, you'll find the conditions in the photo challenging, and you'll derive satisfaction in being able to cope with them.

To be clear, I'm not saying you can't sail there. I'm suggesting that you develop your basic skills in a less challenging, more predictable venue, before you try sailing in such a difficult venue. I think you'll put your current frustration behind you quickly.
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  #28  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

Here is a good video on sail trim:

North Sails: Sail Trim Webinars

I learned how to sail on DaySailors. You are definetely trimmed for a close reach.
If the main has a cunningham, use with the downhaul and outhaul that to flatten out the bag at the bottom.
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  #29  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

From the pic you have a drastic mainsail SHAPE issue, not a 'trim' issue.

From the pic, your mainsail isnt correctly raised - that why its 'baggy' ... aft section of the boom is drooping into the cockpit and the angle that the boom makes with the mast is probably MUCH greater than 88-90 deg. This will cause undue 'weather helm' .. and dragging the rudder sideways through the water which enhances 'skid'.
On a boat with a 'triangular rope' traveller, you simply cannot overtension the mainsheet OR the leech will 'significantly hook up to weather' and artificially cause a mainsail 'power-up' by increasing the overall relative amount of draft ... this is a VERY slow setting for mainsail shape but will allow increased pointing ability at very slow boat speed - BUT you need an almost neutral helm pressure to accomplish this 'power pinching' and that isnt a technique for a boat that apparently is having problems in going to weather.
Consult the article I posted earlier about 'how to correctly raise a dacron mainsail' as form the pic I suggest that your PRINCIPAL problem is that the mainsail is not correctly 'raised' and does not have 'correct' tension along the luff. Probably 95% of ALL sailors simply 'raise' a dacron mainsail and never additionally stretch out that luff rope and then complain of poor pointing, aggressive heeling and 'slow' / 'cranky' boat.

The mast is also raked a bit .... so you may have TWO issues that cause weather helm (and skidding to leeward) when beating. Where the position of where maximum draft is located (w/r to fore/aft) in the mainsail (controlled by 'halyard tension' &/or cunnningham tension) will more determine 'helm pressure' than mast rake .... but you really have to 'optimize' both the sail 'shape' AND the mast rake to get to get the boat to 'maximum'. Go the how to raise a dacron mainsail article and do the on-water 'testing' and set up to get correct sail SHAPE via correct halyard tension that results in 'very slight' weather helm, etc. .... FIRST.

Again, you really have to have an almost 'neutral' or helm that has only slight 'helm pressure' or so-called 'weather helm' to make a CB boat like this to go to weather. A CB boat like this shape will need about ~15-20° of heel angle to get the side of the hull immersed sufficiently to resist a skid to leeward .... the CB is really too small when the boat is 'flat' (little to no heel) in the water.

I cant see from the pic whether your forestay is correctly tensioned ... got a pic from the other / up-wind side when the boat is pointing in a bit more wind?

Also, for such 'light' wind conditions you need FLAT (low amount of draft) sails to prevent invisible separation stalls on the leeward side of the sails .... outhaul needs significant tensioning.
Generalized mainsail amount of draft:
0-6kts. FLAT / little draft
6-10kts. moderate draft
10-15kts. full draft when in waves , less draft if small waves
15-18kts moderate draft
18+kts. FLAT / little draft

:-)

Last edited by RichH; 03-12-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2012
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Re: can only tack close reach, can't close-haul

Do you have tell tales on your jib? Having a set or two and knowing how to read them would prove extremely helpful going upwind.
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