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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Learning to Sail
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  #41  
Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

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Originally Posted by TerralTheSeeker View Post
I'm going to get me a milk jug and marker some eyeballs on it and call it Bob. I'll see how many times I run over it with the boat before I get it right lol
I named ours "GUI".
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Maybe he is throwing the tiller the bong way!

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Originally Posted by L124C View Post
IMO, mastering MOB techniques in all conditions provides awareness of boat performance and speed control that may be lacking in his execution of Heaving To. In any case, it certainly doesn't hurt to have the skills!
You don't need to hove to. You just need to turn into the wind. Nothing complicated. Just the most simple thing in the sailing world. Turn into the wind. That stops the boat.

The worst thing about all the "skills" is that you sail out of visual distance to the MOB. Even hoving to you may need to look away. But turning into the wind you can feel it, you don't have to look.

Keeping proximity to the MOB must be a higher priority that tacking, whirling winches, gybing, throwing off preventers, winding in...

With the most simple rule no one needs to think.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Just stop the boat!

That's all. Just stop it. That damn figure of 8 or gybing, or big circles, and all the rest is total and utter nonsense. Just stop the boat: sail into the wind, or if engine on full astern. If no engine on stop the boat, get the engine on, get the sails down.

Chances are the MOB will have swum up to you before you've opened the swim platform.
This is really dangerous advice, for the following reasons :

If you are sailing a larger, heavy boat, a stop into the wind will have you at least a hundred feet away from the MOB, if not more. In rougher conditions and/or cold water the MOB will be doing everything he can to stay afloat, and will not be in a position to swim to the boat. Also if he is wearing a life jacket the position they put you in makes it impossible to swim. So your plan relies on them taking the life jacket off. Under these circumstances 100 ft might as well be a mile.

The previous owner of my boat ably demonstrated why you do not start the engine when you are sailing and have an MOB. He sucked a line into the prop, so then you had : a disabled, sinking boat, AND an MOB in trouble. The MOB couldn't swim to the boat. Thanks to the coastguard the guy JUST survived, and it was a close thing. There is too much going on to safely drop all the sails and start the engine.

That's why you are strongly recommend to : if you are sailing, keep sailing. If you are motoring, keep doing that.

They teach the figure-of-eight because it's it's a universal technique that works on any point of sail. They've actually looked at what really works. There are other ways to return to an MOB that require more skill and include a gybe. These are good to learn. But the key word here is RETURN. The idea that you can just stop and relax while the MOB happily swims over and jumps onto the boat is ridiculous.

If I ever fall in the water I really hope not to see the boat REVERSING at me under power.
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Last edited by MarkSF; 12-05-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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  #44  
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
The previous owner of my boat ably demonstrated why you do not start the engine when you are sailing and have an MOB. He sucked a line into the prop, so then you had : a disabled, sinking boat, AND an MOB in trouble. The MOB couldn't swim to the boat. Thanks to the coastguard the guy JUST survived, and it was a close thing. There is too much going on to safely drop all the sails and start the engine.
There is one hard and fast rule...that is that there are no hard and fast rules.

Starting the engine can be invaluable in getting back to a MOB in many circumstances (current, sea state, wind, obstructions, etc.) - so I don't buy the above dictum that "you do not start the engine when you are sailing...".

The key in that case is to keep your wits about you - and just make sure there are no lines in the water before you hit the switch. Then of course, make sure you don't chop the chap when you roll up on his clumsy self.

Whatever it takes to stop the boat and quickly get back to the floater - do it.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 12-05-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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  #45  
Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

So how do you guys do MOB recovery while flying a spinnaker? You would need to hoist the jib betfor you would attempt to do a Mexican takedown.
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Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

"So how do you guys do MOB recovery while flying a spinnaker? "
What, you've never seen a SEAL team do a high speed recovery from a RIB? You zoom past the MOB while extending a line or ring, they get one chance to grab ahold and swing up. If they miss it, they can swim home.
Good enough for gummint work, right? :-)
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
So how do you guys do MOB recovery while flying a spinnaker? You would need to hoist the jib betfor you would attempt to do a Mexican takedown.
Stop the boat.

If that means wrapping the kite around the mast do so. The life if much more valuable.

It's even easier on a dead run because when you turn up to wind the boat will stop quickly.
Then check for lines in the water and motor back to the. MOB.
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  #48  
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

"Stop the boat."
Mark, that's usually impossible while you're flying a chute. In order to do a MOB recovery while flying the chute, you have to do a high speed pickup.

Blowing the chute, stopping the boat, all fine concepts but then you are no longer flying the chute. I mean, I've seen all sorts on interesting theatre with a chute, but I've never seen someone stop a boat while stilll flying it. (WEG)
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Stop the boat."
Mark, that's usually impossible while you're flying a chute. In order to do a MOB recovery while flying the chute, you have to do a high speed pickup.

Blowing the chute, stopping the boat, all fine concepts but then you are no longer flying the chute. I mean, I've seen all sorts on interesting theatre with a chute, but I've never seen someone stop a boat while stilll flying it. (WEG)
Well think about it. Your on the helm flying a chute. Your lover goes over the side. Upwind. So what's the easiest, quickest thing to do? Spin the wheel and get the boat directly upwind. The spinnaker backs. Boat speed has taken you half way to the MOB. You get the engine on. Clear lines. MOB has probably swum have the remaining distance. Motor up to MOB. kite still wrapped. pick up MOB and then sort out Kite.

Look, the concept sounded pretty stupid to me when I was first told it 12 pr 13 years ago. But after thinking about it, and practicing it, it gets to be a better and better idea, to me. If you want to do it another way, so be it. But in dousing a kite you have to take your eyes off the MOB. Spinning up to Wind you don't. by the time the kite is on board how far are you down course? Five hundred meters? Well look for a bobbing head at 500 meters.

Have a ponder on it for a day or two and see what you think
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  #50  
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Re: Too Much, Too Soon?

Mark, as they say… “Pics or it didn’t happen” I would love to see the Utube of you practicing a headstay wrap. Just about every time I wrap, I’m dropping off the kite at my sailmaker on the way home. I’m not sure I would attempt doing such a maneuver up here in Norcal’s notorious breezes or down in the trades. That round-up would result in a broach every time on the sleds I race on. Best I can do is a Samurai take down and sail back upwind to the MOB. I actually had to do this maneuver to qualify as helmsman on one of the boats I race on. I am proud to say if you are going to fall off a boat, do it on one that I’m helming. I will get to you (Did it three times in a row in practice). The most important thing I learned on the subject was from “Chef” in the Apocalypse Now – “Never get off the effing boat!”
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