 Quick Menu


13Likes
01092013


S/V Wyndwitch  Morgan 24


Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South Shore LI. NY
Posts: 297
Thanks: 91
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 4


Re: Reefing a headsail???
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH
The use of a (slab) reefable jib, etc. is a VERY good way ensure good sail SHAPE, especially needed for going 'upwind' in gnarly conditions. This is a strategic advantage over a roller furled jib that typically can only be 'roller reefed' to approx 30% sail area reduction before the shape  goes all to hell and you get extreme bagginess in the important luff section and thus lose important 'pointing ability'.
I prefer the jib, etc. reef points to run along at an 'up angle' towards the clew for two reasons:
1. if carefully 'angled' you dont have to reset (much) the fore/aft position of the jib fairlead car.
3. the resultant higher (new) clew position will be 'far above the deck' for less trapping of 'green water'. Another way to state this is the my reef points are arranged so that I effectively change a relatively low clew 'normal' shape into a 'yankee' shape with 'high' clew when deep reefed.

Well said...I noticed this on my previous boat which really needed a jib reef when it got over 25 and would become very tame and able to beat upwind quite closely afterwards....Reasons I am thinking of removing my furling on the new boat. grrrr decisions decisions!

01092013

ASA and PSIA Instructor


Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,448
Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15


Re: Reefing a headsail???
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaten
....WHile that's all good, the foot *is* what he sent me, dimensionwise; a measured 16'3". Doing the math; it looks like I am the new owner of a 150% Genoa!! .

If you actually measured the length of the foot, that is not what you measure to determine the size of the jib, you need to measure the LP or luff perpendicular, the length perpendicular from the luff to the clew...so the sail should turn out to be a good deal less than a 150%.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...

01092013


Senior Member


Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lancaster Co. PA/ North East, MD
Posts: 681
Thanks: 6
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 2


Re: Reefing a headsail???
sailingfool;
I'd appreciate a link to that info... on how ya calculate the percent overage.
Thanks,
Paul

01102013


Senior Member


Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,861
Thanks: 26
Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 6


Re: Reefing a headsail???
As an aside. When you furl a a genoa, the C of E goes higher and forward  exaxctly the wrong direction.
I used to use a boat with a slab reefing jib. It was great. I remember beating in 35 knots (with few waves, no fetch). No problem. Double reefed main.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)

01102013


Senior Member


Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,841
Thanks: 9
Thanked 75 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 15


Re: Reefing a headsail???
Here ya go on determining the LP (length perpendicular) ... see the second dwg. on the page.
Sail Measurement Assistance

01102013


Senior Member


Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lancaster Co. PA/ North East, MD
Posts: 681
Thanks: 6
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 2


Re: Reefing a headsail???
Thanks Rich;
I'm having some trouble digesting the text stating; " The LP defines the sail size in terms of percentage increase beyond the J measurement as in the following examples." with the chart immediately below. It shows, under the "LP" column, a direct correlation to unit "J" past the "I" line.
It appears that roller furlers need the "LP" figure to relate the amount of sail exposed, as that's the direction of reduction; but regular (geometric term) foresail calcs rely on straight "J" numbers.
Am I missing something??
Doesn't the "IJ" foretriangle calc describe a geometric area potentially filled by a headsail at 100% (not necessarily the actual measurements)? As I was led to believe, the increase in percentage was a function of the amount of the (base/"J") jib triangle passing the mast (height/"I") of the theoretical/geometric right triangle??
Last edited by deltaten; 01102013 at 08:47 AM.

01102013

ASA and PSIA Instructor


Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,448
Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15


Re: Reefing a headsail???
Hmmm. Just lose the concept that the genoa size relates to the foretriangle area  it does not. It relates solely to the LP relationship to the J. If you do the geometry, a 100% genoa will have an area equal to the (square root of (I squared plus P squared)/I) times the foretriangle area. So if the measurements of a W27 are:
I J P E
34.75ft 11.00ft 29.00ft) 10.75ft
then the area of a 100% jib will be 1.05 times the foretriangle area of 1/2*IP or 529 sq. ft.
I think.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...

01102013


Just another Moderator


Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,699
Thanks: 68
Thanked 197 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 10


Re: Reefing a headsail???
I think SF has it... if your boat has a J measurement of 12 feet, say, and if you drew a line through the clew at 90 degrees to the luff (ie LP) and it measured 18 feet, that's a '150%' genoa
__________________
Ron
1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"
".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

01102013


Senior Member


Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7


Re: Reefing a headsail???
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool
Hmmm. Just lose the concept that the genoa size relates to the foretriangle area  it does not. It relates solely to the LP relationship to the J. If you do the geometry, a 100% genoa will have an area equal to the (square root of (I squared plus P squared)/I) times the foretriangle area. So if the measurements of a W27 are:
I J P E
34.75ft 11.00ft 29.00ft) 10.75ft
then the area of a 100% jib will be 1.05 times the foretriangle area of 1/2*IP or 529 sq. ft.
I think.

529 ft² sounds big for a 100% jib on a 27foot boat. Isn't P just for the mainsail?
I would think jib area is LP * Luff / 2. If Luff = forestay length, then for that boat it's
100% * 11.00 ft * sqrt((34.75 ft)² + (11 ft)²) / 2 = 200.5 ft².
__________________
s/v Essorant
1972 Catalina 27

01102013

ASA and PSIA Instructor


Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,448
Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15


Re: Reefing a headsail???
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein
529 ft² sounds big for a 100% jib on a 27foot boat. Isn't P just for the mainsail?
I would think jib area is LP * Luff / 2. If Luff = forestay length, then for that boat it's
100% * 11.00 ft * sqrt((34.75 ft)² + (11 ft)²) / 2 = 200.5 ft².

So much for the back of the envelop. You are right, the correct the formula for adjusting the foretriangle area is stated as "(square root of (I squared plus J squared)/I) times the foretriangle area".
I used the correct formula in calculating the 1.05 adjustment for a 100% jib. If you calculate the foretriangle area of I*J/2 to
191, adjust by the 1.05 and you get the 200.5 that you calculated directly...
__________________
Certified...in several regards...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)


Posting Rules

You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts
HTML code is On





All times are GMT 4. The time now is 04:40 PM.
