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Anchoring with changing tides and wind

18K views 40 replies 22 participants last post by  blt2ski 
#1 ·
I am going to need to anchor with strong tides and changing wind directions. I barely know how to anchor at all. I was just googling anchoring and found some info, but not really what I need.

I need to be able to go to sleep and not worry. I have two Danforth anchor and no dingy. One technique involved taking a dingy to set the second anchor. I would think one wouldn't hold because hen the tide changes direction, even if the wind doesn't, it would swing the boat around and twist the anchor out

From what I understand, Washington has good mud, but I don't know how to do it. I need a technique that can withstand anything. If I am out there and the weather gets bad...
 
#2 ·
Best thing is to speak with local sailors on what anchors/techniques they use. You would surprised how much force it requires to pull a good properly set anchor out of mud when swinging 180 degrees.

The new gen anchors set really well in mud. Manson supreme, Mantus, Rocna.

My primary is a Manson supreme and I sleep very well at night. Have never needed to set a second anchor. I usually will find a trusted mooring in anything above 40 kts.
 
#3 ·
ok so you HAVE 2 danforth anchors and you WANT to learn how to anchor in the tide and wind change thing.
i hope you have chain. that helps the anchor stay hooked into bottom. 100 ft is good.
watch how the others are anchored and where their anchor is set. then anchor. it only takes practice, so go out and do it.

if someone has only certain anchor, dont tell him to set one he doesnt have...that makes no sense whatsoever.
 
#5 ·
First thing first get proficient in setting an anchor. Have one of your friends, old salts show you. Dont drop oit on top of itself in a pile. Make sure you set it with the engine in reverse. Tray and set 7:1 scope if you can at least. Remember the scope figure is to be the depth of the water plus the freeboard at the anchor roller. ( If anchoring in 10 ft of water and the distance from the roller to the water is 7 ft your figure should be 10+7=17 X 7 ( scope)= 119 ft of line + chain.)

I agree wholeheartly with Tim R about the need for one of the new gen anchors. No doubt in my experience the set well, first time in almost all bottom conditions. The second reason I have one is their restting ability. In an area with tides there is usually a point the anchor unsets as the boat changes angle 180 degrees ( current overcomes wind on my boat). The new gen anchors have tremendous reset abilities. We have a Rocna, but the Manson Supreme or Mantus also work well

Also if you anchor in reversing tides and dont have all chain, Employ a kellet. We have 60ft of chain which helps, but the kellet prevents the anchor line from wrapping aorund the keel, boat, rudder when the tide reverses,

Kellets or Anchor Angels / Sentinels: Uses and Applications

Also helps lower the cantennary angle in all but strong winds which helps your already set anchor from pulling
 
#6 ·
The Danforth is not a good choice for a primary anchor in the Pacific Northwest. You want something that will stay stuck on a 180 wind shift. The Danforth will trip and then have to reset. I would replace one of them with either a new gen anchor or a Bruce, CQR, etc.. The Danforth is OK as a secondary anchor but not my first choice for that task either.

I do not like anchors that have slots in the shank in areas that get wind shifts.

When anchoring remember to account for changes in the height of the tide. Use sufficient scope for the highest tide.
 
#7 ·
It's not as difficult as it seems. Key is to have an anchor bigger than is recommended for your boat (it's big enough if everyone on the dock tells you it's ridiculously big :)) and enough chain (if not all chain) for the anchor to set and hold properly. The rest just involves getting it to set which is just practice with your boat.
You absolutely NEED a dinghy around here.
 
#8 ·
If you sail your way to Seattle I will sell you a 22lb/10kg Bruce-style Lewmar for $20. I don't have any use for it and would love to get it out of my dock box. It worked well with our Catalina 25 and should be oversized for your Ranger 23.

I only used two anchors once. It's not a very common technique around the San Juans, and that is important because you want to swing the same way as other boats in the anchorage.
 
#10 ·
Don't know if this is a help for a sailboat on a river. I need to try someday but most likely never will.
We used to anchor like this fishing out on the ledge all the time. The beauty is this method floats the anchor up off the bottom making it easier to retrieve 600' of rode. I do not believe using a float to retrieve rode on a sailboat would work very well. You need some speed to move the float down the rode.
 
#11 ·
At least on my dock in Edmonds, I see more Bruce claw or Delta fast set anchors on boats bows. There are afew CQR etc, along with numourous danforth anchors.......I've had a hard time keeping danforths set holding race mark bouys in tide changes, much less boats around here.

I have an actual bruce for my boat, it came with it. I also have a light fastset for my race anchor. ie light enough to meet race rule specs, but heavy enough to hold me in lighter winds and it has as RC a couple of times. Any of the newer plow., claw style anchors in the 10-20lb range, with 20-30' of appropriate sized chaing should hold you in most places here in puget sound. Yes, take into the account, some days we have 16' tide changes, 8-10 is themore common max on a given day. The 14-16' changes are more like once a month for 2-4 days, to even every qtr or so, it can go from -4 to 12' range.

Marty
 
#12 ·
.....I need a technique that can withstand anything. ......
There is really no such thing that can withstand anything. There are only techniques and anchors that are superior to others. You've already received good advice on scope, chain, anchor type, etc above. Ask, if any of it doesn't make perfect sense.

Then there is the inevitable standing watch. Someone just has to check at reasonable intervals. Technology has made this a science from an art. Website, like SailFlow are pretty good a wind speed and direction for each hour overnight. Set your alarm and get up around to the time you will swing. There are also apps for iPhones, iPad, Droids, etc that will keep an eye on your gps location, while you sleep and alarm if you get outside the area you set as protected. Essentially, your smartphone stands watch for you. I don't know as I trust it 100%, but admit it makes sleeping much easier.

However, no one sleeps perfectly well on anchor on a windy night. If not for concern over dragging yourself, you worry that someone less diligent will drag into you.
 
#13 ·
In the PNW the wind shift in the summer is often due to a switch from onshore to offshore breezes. This will happen just after sunset. Sailflow is not a judge of this.

Just make sure that you set the anchor properly, 1500 rpm in reverse. Check transit and the rode to ensure that you are not moving and the rode is not vibrating.

I do not use anchor alarms. If I am unsure of my set I will sit an anchor watch. I have never dragged anchor in the PNW.
 
#15 ·
For the OP spending a typical night in say port ludlow, which would be a good first night out place to anchor. Even in 60+ knot winds, the groundis firm, waves would not be that big,a foot or two at best.....On the west side of Whidbey island as was mentioned briefly........a whole nuther ball game! PL is where I would imagine many east coasters going if a hurricane was coming in! with pugetsound general being the atlantic!

marty
 
#16 ·
NorthOceanBeach... Are you making sense of all the information you have received thus far? I have several quite good books that deal with anchoring (but not handy for immediate reference). I will try to dig them out if you need more information. However, in one way or another, you have already been given the most important information. Try and have as much chain as possible! Go out an anchor just for lunch, or during the day so that you can witness your boat's behavior during changing tides before going overnight. It will build your confidence and take a lot of mystery out of the whole thing.

One other thing: if you are working with crew (i.e. someone working the anchor, someone working the engine) agree on some simple hand signals to communicate with each other... It is more fun than trying to shout at each other over the noise of the engine or running back and forth. That applies to both arrival and departure procedures.

Make sure, since you are working with tides, that you calculate your scope (the length of rode - chain+line) using the maximum height of the tide. The advice then to use a 7/1 ratio (including freeboard) should then make you quite comfortable, possibly using only one anchor, since quite likely you may never move the direction of the chain near the anchor at all (depending on the strength of the current, of course).

As to setting a second anchor: if you feel you must do so, and you have no dinghy, I would buoy the first anchor so you can see where it is, set it properly. Then, motor forward to where you would like to set the second anchor and repeat the process. Haul up in reverse order (second anchor first, and the buoyed anchor last). Even with a dinghy it would be less involved to do it this way: carrying an anchor and chain out some distance from the boat is heavy work, and you certainly will not raise it that way, anyway.

Best of luck.
 
#18 ·
Thanks. It makes sense.

I will count the feet of chain each anchor has. Tomorrow I will get them out.

Alex, When we have some bad weather Immplanningnon dickk to Seattle to check it out since its a great city an I haven't been there in a while. If you're around ill definitely get tht anchor.

Ill go pratice tomorrow or Tuesday.
 
#19 ·
I like Tempest's suggestion of using two anchors in a Bahamian moor. The angled rodes spread the load, making dragging or moving less likely. We anchored in a fog in Arcachon - where there's a hefty current in and out of the estuary - and this setup kept us turning tightly in place despite changing wind & current. When the fog cleared in the morning, we saw we were only a boatlength from oyster bed fences that would have been quite nasty to run or bump into.
 
#20 ·
I like Tempest's suggestion of using two anchors in a Bahamian moor.
I do not recall ever seeing a Bahamian moor in the PNW. (I have done them while teaching, but I never leave a second anchor down.) Just anchor like all others, securely.
 
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#21 ·
My link was really meant to be a generic response to the question. (one technique)

Anchoring methods and anchor types/size should be specific to the waters and conditions, So I am happy to defer and refer the OP to those who sail in his waters.

I should note that I took the danforth that came with my boat off the bow and replaced it with a Spade. I stowed the danforth and use it as a spare. I also have a smaller one at the stern that I can deploy quickly in an emergency. ( engine dies in a bad spot)
 
#22 ·
1 - Observe what others have done and do similar
2 - Anchor in areas of similar size boats with similar rode if you can (a boat on all chain will swing quite differently than one on chain/rope)
3 - Be aware of the expected tidal change - both for depth under the boat at low tide, and for adequate scope at high.
4 - As has been said ensure anchor is solidly set - this goes for swinging free, of course, but ESPECIALLY for stern tie situations. Cross winds/current can put very heavy strains on the anchor and rode.

Seconding Jackdale.. never seen a Bahamian anchoring setup here, and one boat anchoring bow and stern can ruin a bay for others that would prefer to swing free.

We stern tie a lot, but actually sleep better swinging free. On a windy night the only way I can relax if stern tied is if the wind is coming off the beach. Otherwise it's either a crosswind, or you're on a very close lee shore. Remember if the anchor lets go then the only thing you're tied to is the beach.. or rocks... and that's where you'll go... Still, it's a common practice for many reasons, and in reality in summer (in our area) for the most part the winds shut off overnight if the weather is fair and settled...
 
#23 ·
Everyone has already covered most things I would suggest, but I'll chime in to reiterate a few things:

- Chain is pretty key in this scenario - you can supplement the chain with a lead weight, or put the two Danforth's in sequence on the rode. We've never tried this, but we've read about it.

- That being said, the only time we ever drug anchor in the PNW was when we used our Danforth. It's not so good at resetting. After that instance we started using our slightly over-sized Bruce and haven't dragged since (it resets quickly and easily in most conditions). We LOVE our Bruce anchor...it's held us in some pretty crazy winds. You should totally buy the Bruce that's being offered for $20 (what a steal!)

- Letting out a lot of scope is also a good idea, if you have enough space. Be conscious of your swinging radius if you have neighbors. If you don't have neighbors, just let it all hang out! Not really...but you can be generous with your scope.

- When you arrive at an anchorage hail your new neighbors on the radio to get their opinion. Let them know that you're new at this and that you would benefit from some friendly advice - most people are awesome about helping newcomers...though it also means they might not sleep soundly knowing they're anchored next to a newbie :).

- Set your anchor so that you're facing the same way as everyone else in the anchorage and back down on it (with your motor in reverse until it is set - ie, you're not moving backwards anymore).

- I highly recommend picking up the Daschew's book Practical Seamenship - they have a great section on anchoring strategies.

- One of the biggest challenges we've had with changing wind, tides and current is that even though we stay put through it all, we somehow get wrapped around our rode (or rather, it get's wrapped around us). This happened in San Francisco when we were anchored off of Angel Island and in La Paz (both times we were moving around quite a lot). If that happens there are two strategies we've used: 1) let your rode out quite a bit more and then maneuver your boat to get "unstuck" - sometimes easier said then done (you just have to try it out) or 2) tie your rode to a life-ring and come back for it (this one kind of freaks me out, I have nightmares about losing our beloved Bruce). I'm sure there are other strategies.

Good luck to you! Have fun!
 
#25 ·
- One of the biggest challenges we've had with changing wind, tides and current is that even though we stay put through it all, we somehow get wrapped around our rode (or rather, it get's wrapped around us). This happened in San Francisco when we were anchored off of Angel Island and in La Paz (both times we were moving around quite a lot). If that happens there are two strategies we've used: 1) let your rode out quite a bit more and then maneuver your boat to get "unstuck" - sometimes easier said then done (you just have to try it out) or 2) tie your rode to a life-ring and come back for it (this one kind of freaks me out, I have nightmares about losing our beloved Bruce). I'm sure there are other strategies.

Good luck to you! Have fun!
Use a kellet as I have described above. Since we used one we have not had to experience anchor rode wrap around the boat, keel or prop again.

If you don't the rode may decide to saw through the soft lead keel when you wrap. I have seen it leave quite an indention in a Tartan 34 once when it wrapped the beavertail part of the keel and gashed it pretty well.

Dave
 
#24 ·
Without having a dinghy to aid in setting the stern anchor, you can (first) set the bow anchor. Let out EXTRA rode so you back down over the spot you would take the dinghy out to. (second) drop the stern anchor there, leave a little extra behind the boat and cleat it off. (third) don't use the engine, yet pull or windlass the bow anchor in to the length that sets you where you need to be (meanwhile this should set your stern anchor well in the mud), cleat off the bow rode. I say don't use the engine because you don't want to back into the stern rode and catch your prop, and you don't want to chug forward into the bow rode quicker than someone can pull it out of the water.

Then just find the balance of the two rode lengths.
 
#26 ·
when in doubt, ask someone who is already anchored where they set their hook and from which direction they set it and what they use , and you will learn fast.....
every anchoring i do is in tidal waters with clocking winds--every direction daily each. isnt hard to make it work. i do it with one genyooowhine bruce 30 kg anchor and using 150-160 ft on ground in 20ft of this changing situation and i have no problem.

isnt hard to learn, and do not forget to ask until you are secure with your method which will change for you until you have it set into your mind.
 
#27 · (Edited)
In 10 years of living on the hook the only time I have used the Bahamian anchoring technique is

wait for it

the Bahamas. Specifically off Nassau and in one ot two of the cuts like Farmers. I would always check to see what the other boats around me were doing before setting the two anchors at 180 degrees. If you have significant additional rode on one of the two anchors using the dink is not required.

Finally no thread on anchoring is complete without a mention of the ode to the credit card captains/. Watch for the man coiling the rope and the girl in the green bikini who contribute to the recovery in their own ways.

 
#29 ·
Awesome. Thanks. Great advice.

I guess because I haven't anchored I imagine the winds coming up super stron like it is now and slamming the boat. But most places I will anchor are pretty protected coves, not like if I were anchored in front of port townsend oday with the wind 30 mod onshore. There was a guy anchored out. Ill see if he's still there.
 
#35 ·
My most notable whoda thunkit happened in False Creek ,Vancouver .Mud bottom ,lots of scope half inch chain and 80 lb fisherman hook, days of wind change 180 degrees laid the scope back and forth over the anchor and tide dropped a loop over the cross bar and picked it all up on the rising tide. Coast guard found me by the Granville bridge alerted by a friendly passing tug and barge.We all had a good laugh when we got the tight ball of 300 lbs plus mud to the bow roller. I don't know what the moral of this is but Murphy lives.
 
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