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  #51  
Old 12-16-2006
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Dave... here's what I was talking about. The absolute and unlimited right to anchor under federal law was clouded by this:

"Under the (FEDERAL) Submerged Lands Act (SLA), ownership of submerged lands and control of the overlying waters was transferred to the states, subject to a reservation of significant power by
the federal government.
The SLA recognized, confirmed, and established each state's claim of title and ownership as well as management and administrative responsibility over submerged lands beneath navigable waters. The Supreme Court has characterized the SLA as a transfer to the
states of rights to “submerged lands and waters”. Congress’ goal in passing the SLA was to decentralize management of coastal areas and foster greater local control to better meet the needs of the state and boaters. Congress stated that because management of submerged lands is directly
tied to local activities, “any conflict of interest arising from the use of the submerged lands should be and can best be solved by local authorities.” The SLA, however, expressly reserved in the federal government the power to regulate these lands for the purposes of “commerce, navigation,national defense, and international affairs.” Several other statutes implement that authority."
**********
The entire anchoring law LEGAL issue is extensively discussed here:
http://www.bootkeyharbor.com/GovtReg&RightsofNavFl.pdf
...and the above quote is just a snippet which does not do the issue justice.

As I read it...we have no fundamental right to anchor wherever we want in navigable waters for an extended length of time...states may may control that right REASONABLY and the Feds retain the right to trump the state if it is unreasonable. (For example...if it undermines maritime safety.)
So...while our GOAL remains the same...it appears we will need to secure favorable treatment for boaters on a state by state basis rather than hope for some magic bullet that makes all state anchoring regulation invalid.
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  #52  
Old 12-16-2006
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Actually cam, that is how it should be, on a local level. The problem arises because local governments tend to favor one interest over another. Most generally in the favor of who puts more money into the government coffers. Rarely is an issue decided on it's merits and the overall impact beyond the issue of generating revenue.

In one sense, it's a NIMBY thing. They give a nod in the direction of fairness, as long as it doesn't interfere with what they want to do.

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned in this thread though, is the need for the responsible boaters to apply some peer type pressure on the "squatters". To clean up our own backyard, so to speak. Certainly not in any vigilante type way, but in an educational way. To try and make them see that their behaviour affects us, as well as them. Alas though, for that is much easier said than done.

Another thing that might prove helpful would be for the organized groups to make those they deal with aware of discussions such as this. Make them realize that there is an avenue for co-operation. That there can be mutally benefical solutions to these types of issues.
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  #53  
Old 12-16-2006
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For years Vancouver has struggled with increasing dozens of unsightly liveaboards and derelict boats in False Creek, its most popular anchorage. Here is part of a press release announcing the new policy arrived at after several years of wrangling:

June 30, 2006

New boating restriction regulation on anchoring in False Creek
The City of Vancouver's new False Creek anchoring permit system will go into effect on August 1st. The City of Vancouver and Transport Canada signed a Memorandum of Understanding today to implement the new boating restriction on anchoring in False Creek. Over the next 30 days the City will be implementing, and distributing information, on the anchoring permit system. The new system is designed to improve access for boaters in Vancouver's False Creek. Boaters will be required to obtain a free permit to anchor in False Creek anytime overnight (11 p.m. to 9 a.m.) or for anchoring more than eight hours during the day (9 a.m. to 11 p.m.). The federal government's Boating Restriction Regulations, under the Canada Shipping Act, have been amended to allow for the City's new anchoring permit system.

False Creek is a very popular boating area for many different activities including dragon boating, canoeing, kayaking, public ferries, charter ships, and visiting pleasure boats. This new anchoring system will allow the City to manage anchoring in False Creek to facilitate these activities, improve boater safety, and encourage turnover so that all boaters who wish to enjoy the Creek may do so.

With the free permit, boaters will be able to anchor for up to 14 days (during a 30-day period) from April 1 to September 30, and for up to 21 days (during a 40-day period) from October 1 to March 31. The time period is designed to allow boaters some flexibility to come and go during their visit to Vancouver. Boaters wishing to stay longer than the allowable time frame can contact the Vancouver Boating Welcome Centre for assistance in finding temporary moorage space at a local marina.


Through the late summer and into the autumn, I watched as the numbers of nautical wrecks gradually decreased, and there was once again room for "real" transient boaters.
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  #54  
Old 12-17-2006
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DD...Not bad! I personally would like to see something on the order of 90 days out of 180 as seasonality affects where we want to hang out during hurricane season and the winter and it is a pain to have to pull up and move to satisfy a beurocratic decisions. Nevertheless I think the law above goes a long way to satisfying the concerns of all who have a stake in the water/waterfront except for the pure moochers! ...and even they can still mooch IF they can move!
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Old 12-17-2006
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Rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_dave
Boy am I gonna get it for this!!!!! Comparing a boat at anchor to a camper in a park is like comparing a an 80 year old grandmother trying to board a plane to her grandchildren on Christmas (It know I am not to use the word Christmas , we are to use holiday, I don't care!!) to a raghead terrorist. We are talking about maritime here. Like it or not a boat can anchor just about anywhere it pleases. As long as said boat is not in a marked channel etc. I am just to lazy to list all the regs. Water belongs to no one person. I kinda like it like that. That being said, Do I personally like some of those junk boats out there. Hell no, However it is their right. Did I like Larry Flint? Hell no but I am willing to stand up for his free speech rights, just as I would for a boat at anchor.

Cap'n Dave
Cap'n Dave

The reason you don't list all of the regs here is because they do not exist. There are no regs anywhere that give anyone the "right" to permanently anchor/moor anywhere. (Please note that I'm referring to permanent moorings/anchoring) You are correct is stating that "the water belongs to no person". That is my exact point. When you put down a private mooring in public waters, you deny everyone else their right to anchor there. Go to Beaufort, NC and try to find a place to anchor. There are none.......private mooring balls everywhere, denying true cruisers of their right to anchor as a part of navigation.

Sorry guys, fortunately, you're going to loose this fight because you have no legal basis for what you describe as your "rights". Florida (and Vancouver) got it right!!

rleslie

Last edited by rleslie; 12-18-2006 at 09:11 AM.
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  #56  
Old 12-27-2006
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Key West is the only place I know that will sell you a space to tie up you boat for $250,000 and up yet you can find moorings to lease from the city reasonably priced,or live in a marina like me.There are mooring areas that are free but as usual the gov is trying to control them.If you're legal and out of the way they don't usually mess with you.I love it here.
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  #57  
Old 12-31-2006
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The Florida legislature enacted a bill this past summer enabling us to anchor. Read about it in ssca.org or boatus.com
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Old 01-10-2007
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Surf, the question was simple. Do you know how the state and local government is regulating federal waterways?
BTW-your red herring "bums on a boat" does not apply to 99.9% of the people. Not a very intelligent argument IMHO.
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Old 01-10-2007
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"Do you know how the state and local government is regulating federal waterways? "
Neither states nor municipal governments have any right or ability to regulate federal waterways. What they sometimes do have, is the right to regulate the use of their own bottomlands.
If, like many boaters, you can't distinguish the issues, and grasp that bottomlands and waterways are separate legal issues, you'll get nowhere fast.
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  #60  
Old 01-21-2007
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Hellosailor,
You are right. I applied for and was aproved for a mooring permit by the State DEQ/Army Corp of Engineers last year. It cost $50 for the one time permit which can be revoked, but untill it is, it's good to go without further cost. As far as I know, none of the few other neighbor vessels have done this. I consider them pirate moorings, or as Cam puts it, cling-ons. I love that one Cam, thanks, I am going to borrow it, just for fun of course. There have been lots of problems with cling-ons in certain parts, normally well protected bays; Traverse Bay, Round Lake, and Suttons Bay. Historically, guess who has won any argument to mooring the bottomlands without the permit? The vast majority of these cling-ons do not live on the shore, hence they do not have legal access to the bottom land to begin with, which is a requirement for an approved mooring in Michigan. One of my concerns, was liability if my moored vessel was struck and it was illegally attached to the bottomland. Imho, it would not take much for that to help build a successful case against my boat in case of property damage or injuries. Like I earlier posted, it was only $50 for this permit, and I learned a few things during the process.
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