Rawson30 Bluewater move it away from NJ to Bermuda or Carrib. and use up to 3 months - Page 3 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #21  
Old 07-25-2006
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I think there are several issues here that make this a red flag to those of us reading it.

Firstly, there is the issue of credibility of the entire situation, but please understand that this is only the first of several serious concerns.

First among these is the availability of resources to render the boat fit and safe for the journey if it is found to be unseaworthy by the skipper who takes you up on this.
You will not be there. You have said that money is tight and that transfering funds in likely to prove problematic. You have also pointed out that the boat has suffered, at the least, some fairly extensive neglect, if not active damage.
It is entirely feasable that based on EXACTLY what you have described in your posts, that the arriving crew would find that casting off the lines is delayed by two weeks and about $10K of materials needed to render the boat fit for the journey.
So that is $10000 dollars of parts, two weeks of accomadation for the crew (and lost wages from their normal lives), and the cost of labour to actually repair engine, sails, rudder or rigging (or all of the above) so that the boat can make an open oceon passage. Where is that money coming form and how certain is the skipper that it will get there? Are you willing to put about $30k in an escrow account to be used for legitimate boat projects by the delivery crew?
These figures are not exagerated. They may be conservative.

Secondly is the concern of documentation. You are asking someone to move an unknown boat across national borders for a third party, where it will be permanently relocated or "imported". The documents required for this are very exacting and at times quite complex, often reuiring some extensive time by specialist attorneys. There may be tax issues, there WILL be goivernment charges and duties. Again, where will you be to provide the funds? A responsible skipper knows not to put themselves into a situation where they will be raftd up to a patrol and customs boat off the coast of bermuda and being told that you must pay several thousand dollars in import duties right there in order to get a clearence stamp. That you may not go further until you do. And that once that money is paid, it is not like the skipper has title of the boat and can keep it until they are reinbursed. basically it is a very sketchy situation. That si why there are binded and insured companies that normally handle this sort of thing.

...And on that note we come to INSURANCE. For the boat, for the crew, for potential costs of being rescued at sea of the boat founders, and of course, for any damage (environmental and otherwise) that the boat might do if the sitution goes pear shaped.

Finaly, we come to the fact that you are dealing with numerous legal hassles involved in your home country in regards to taking possession of this boat. BIGRED WARNING SIGNS for any skipper that may wish to help you out. Those sort of problems tend to get spread far and wide to cover all and sundry if a problem arises. Basically, an insurer would look into your situation looking for loopholes not to pay out. Customs and registery agencies would need a slew of documents to even log the boat into their country and this would get back to your government if you use proper names and ID...if you do not, then no one who you would trust with your boat would really have any interest in dealing with you.

Finally, there is the high likelyhood that if nothing else, the Marina the boat has long overstayed its welcome at will have some suddena dn surprising going away charges to present.

In short, the situation is a disaster more akin to the plot of "Captain Ron" then it is an opportunity for a relaxing cruising holiday.

It is these matters, amongst others that cause people to hesitate and doubt the varacity of taking you up on your "generous" offer of "free" boat use.

My advice would be to get the documentation well and truly 100% sorted out, organise an escrow for boat bills in the several tens of thousands, and contact an import agent specialising in boat tranfers so that he is "on board" with this venture and the crew need only hand the boat over to him and walk away.

Oh yeah...and insurance.

At that point you may find some serious takers that would actually be worth entrusting the boat to.


Cheers.

Sasha
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  #22  
Old 07-26-2006
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JohnysRawson30 is an unknown quantity at this point
LIsten I paid for boat, boat is mine and if got visa, Im long time away with her, but didnt get, because of little medical pension/retirement , that income is not enough income for embassy and they considered such man as potential immigrants from economic reason.Im in in European union, and can legally work or immigrate (is not immigration just moving from one state to another, like from NJ to FL in USA) in any rich country (my country is poor) "form economic reasons" but autorities on bureaus usually everywhere in the world has little bit slower brain and understanding of true situation and just produce blablabla aroud CLEAR things, as some other people of that kind. Thanks. Jan. You can manage insurrance if you want, a have boat for longer time. Its on YOU, what you would consider as necessary to do for your safety.
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  #23  
Old 07-26-2006
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Who do you expect to pay for the repairs? Will you offer to wire the money into their account? (Red Flag) What is your full name, address and phone number? What references do you have?
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  #24  
Old 07-26-2006
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JohnysRawson30 is an unknown quantity at this point
Boat is documented, there is certificate of the title, to my name, contract approved by public notary in Atlantic city,bill of the sale approved by same public notary and of course payment order from bank. Do not consider me as .... Of course I have all the documents and really dont have time to reflect to such type replies.
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  #25  
Old 07-26-2006
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Johny

Hop on a plane and float her to Bermuda.......yourself...es esay...
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  #26  
Old 07-26-2006
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Would you be willing to discuss this with the C.I.A and let them handle your paper work and do a background check on yourself and your associates. If willing, I'm sure there are several people that will help you!
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  #27  
Old 07-26-2006
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sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I notice that even as you have replied, JohnysRawson30, that you have not addressed any of the concerns that were raised by myself or Sasha V in their post above.

The documentation issue aside, as you say that the boat is documented, and that you have a certificate of title, what about an escrow account to hold money for repairing and re-fitting the boat, and paying the marina? I think Sasha V's estimate of $30K is a minimum, given the amount of work and time I have spent on my boat, and mine is basically new, and has never been neglected, as yours has.

From your brief response, I am doubting that the boat is actually documented or registered. USCG documentation takes fairly rigorous paperwork, and is only granted to US Citizens...so you do not qualify. State registration also generally requires a fair amount of paperwork, and as you've not actually been in the US, I doubt that was done properly as well.

Also, I doubt that anyone would want to take out an insurance policy on a boat that they do not own... the insurance companies generally won't do third party insurance on a boat, especially one that is as questionable as yours appears to be.

If you do not have the time to answer such basic questions, it is very likely that you will not get anyone to do anything about your boat....and that the marina will place a lien on it, and eventually sell it at auction, as I and others have said previously.

Please note, that I am not attacking you...but trying to point out what you need to do in order to get what you say is your property delivered to someplace you can access it. The questions that Sasha V, Surfesq, myself and others have raised are legitimate concerns, and your inability or unwillingness to address them are likely to raise huge warning flags for anyone who might have been considering your offer.

If you are incapable of understanding why we have written what we have, and do not see the implications of the questions that we have raised, then it is very likely that you really have no idea of what is involved in the purchase and ownership of the boat, and have likely thrown whatever money you allegedly spent to by the boat away for all intents and purposes. It is almost impossible to help someone who is unwilling to provide as much assistance in their situation as is possible—you seem to be one of those that makes it impossible/unworthwhile to help. You have been defensive and evasive in your answers... those are definitely warning flags in my book, and probably to the others as well.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 07-26-2006 at 11:53 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2006
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I found this post on the following forums; Yacht Captains, Cruising World General forum, Sailing World Racing Forum, MSN Sailing World! There are more.
You joined each forum the same day as the posted question.
You joined MSN with this name you are using here, on the same day.
This is obviously a joke, get a life. If by chance this is an off shot of a typical Nigerien scam, only people with little or no money fall for it! Only people more stupid then yourself, (which by the way you won't find on this forum) would consider helping you. Take it somewhere else!!
By the way, this is the only forum that has replied to your ridicules request!!

edit; It's 12 noon Rush is on the radio, you are waisting my time!!

Last edited by BEANS; 07-26-2006 at 12:17 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-26-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEANS
I found this post on the following forums; Yacht Captains, Cruising World General forum, Sailing World Racing Forum, MSN Sailing World! There are more.
You joined each forum the same day as the posted question.
You joined MSN with this name you are using here, on the same day.
This is obviously a joke, get a life. If by chance this is an off shot of a typical Nigerien scam, only people with little or no money fall for it! Only people more stupid then yourself, (which by the way you won't find on this forum) would consider helping you. Take it somewhere else!!
By the way, this is the only forum that has replied to your ridicules request!!

edit; It's 12 noon Rush is on the radio, you are waisting my time!!
At least he's consistent... and damned persistent...if he's posted to over five forums... Just curious Beans, did you see what kind of response he was getting on the other forums?
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
At least he's consistent... and damned persistent...if he's posted to over five forums... Just curious Beans, did you see what kind of response he was getting on the other forums?
This is the only forum to respond! I'm still searching, if I find anything I'll post it.
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