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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #11  
Old 07-15-2006
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FYI:

What to Do When Boating in NDA Waters
When traveling in NDA waters, boaters with Type I or Type II MSDs must do one of the following: 1) close the seacock and remove the handle 2) fix the seacock in the closed position with a padlock or non-releasable wire-tie 3) lock the door to the space enclosing the toilet with a padlock or door handle key lock.
When traveling in NDA waters, a Type III MSD (holding tank) must be secured in one of the following ways: 1) close each valve leading to an overboard discharge 2) padlock each valve in the closed position 3) use a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position. All of these methods of securing MSDs while in NDA waters are approved by the US Coast Guard.
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  #12  
Old 07-15-2006
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Camaraderie and Wallbygolly! For Shame. Just turn in the keys to your boat now. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves for using the others pollute so why can't I excuse.

"Instead of fixing the real problem...(runoff, over-flowing sewage systems, fertilizer etc.)...find a small defensless group and make them travel 3 miles offshore to dump their tanks since the d+$%$##n pumpout stations are never working or too far away to be of practical use."

Camaraderie, I am really sorry that you have to give up 10 minutes of your time because you are not allowed to dump 15 gallons of raw sewage into the Bay. Think about it those terms because that is the size of an average holding tank. On a typical Chesapeake Bay weekend there are hundred of boats in the water. If everyone was taking a **** and pumping it overboard the Bay would be even worse. Its much more than a drop in bucket.

If we as sailors, (which theoretically means we are not knuckle dragging motor boaters), are not environmentally responsible there is no hope for our waterways. As I said earlier, do you mind if I come on by and take a nice big steamer on your front porch or piss on your tomatoes? I am just one guy what harm could it do?

Do something about the pollution, give to Save the Bay, write your Congressman. Boycott chicken producers who are not environmentally responsible. Stop fertilizing your lawn in you live on the water or in a watershed area. I am a hardcore Republican but there is no exception for polluting.

Here is a small example of how you can help. My parents live on a small cove off the Tred Avon River in Md. They became concerned by the fact that the Tred was tops in the Bay for nitrogen levels. They stopped fertilizing their lawn and planted natural grasses along the shore. They also had indigenous water grasses replaced in the tidal area. Many of their neighbors have followed suit.

Cleaning up our waterways starts with idiots like you guys.

Last edited by Surfesq; 07-15-2006 at 05:04 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-15-2006
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You Don't have to lock the Thru-Hull

You can lock either the Y-Valve or the thru-hull. You can even remove the handle from the thru-hull. You can even lock the door to the head. Any of these methods are ok.

Fair Winds

Cap'n Dave
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  #14  
Old 07-15-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfesq
Cleaning up our waterways starts with idiots like you guys.
Actually, it starts with guys like us, teaching guys like them...
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2006
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A Great Lakes Live Aboard's Opinion

Just a quick comment from a freshwater live aboard,

I live on a Catalina 30 with a 17gal holding tank with my two daughters. We can normally last about 2weeks before heading to the pump station. Of course in the summer it's easy enough to run up to the marina wash room...winter will be a bit more chilly for me....lol

Having always lived on the Great Lakes I'm at a loss as to discharging overboard but I don't have a problem with it as long as it's done responsibly.
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  #16  
Old 07-18-2006
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I was never using the "others do it so why can't I?" excuse. I do not think that discharging into a harbor or bay is the same as the open ocean or right along the coastline. Going offshore 3 miles for me is pretty easy...and I would be pretty far out as far as currents go. 15 gallons of waste into the Pacific Ocean which is billions upon billions upon billions or water...I mean, come on...there is this thing called dilution. Plus, its not like I'm dumping oil or something into the ocean, its natural human waste...

In my original question, I never said anything about discharging in the marina I'm at, I never anything about going near waikiki beach and unloading, I asked if it was feasible, if I was outside the 3-mile rule, to discharge into the ocean.

No matter how much you try and "teach guys like us"...I just can't compare fertilizer runoff or shoreline dumping of chemicals or human waste the same with discharging offshore a small holding tank whenever I'm out there.

But, I'm willing to learn. Show me that dumping 15 gallons over 3 miles offshore is a bad thing. Show me that human waste is comparable to nuclear waste and that it doesn't breakdown naturally. Explain to me, if I am sailing to the other side of the island or to another island all together, how if I discharge in transit it will kill all those baby seals.

Maybe this was a classic act of mis-communication...but Hawaii Marinas are the most under-funded and worst kept in the US. If the pumping station is actually working on a weekend I'm around and there isn't 20 boats in line for it, I already said I would use it. I was asking about negative effects of discharging the tanks into the OPEN ocean. Don't start comparing with fertilzer run off or the evil corporations dumping toxic waste into harbors and telling me I need to change the grass that is on my house. This is not the same. I imagine that discharging overboard was (and is) common practice on sailers doing open-water travels for centuries. I don't consider myself an idiot for asking this question, I don't consider myself an idiot for trying to find out the best solution. I do, however, consider others idiots for being so close-minded they can't comprehend the question I was asking...then proceed to compare it to coming next door to your house and taking a dump on your front door.
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  #17  
Old 07-18-2006
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Dumping a small holding tank for blackwater out past the three-mile limit is really not a problem. A large whale probably does the equivalent several times a day. LOL.

The only time that dumping the tank is really a problem is when you are inside the three-mile limit, especially if you are in a bay or estuary that has limited water exchange, and allows the waste to concentrate, rather than washing it away and diluting it, as happens in the open ocean.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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  #18  
Old 07-18-2006
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Let me help you out so everyone on this thread doesn't continue to think you are a polluting moron.

It is perfectly okay to dump overboard 3 miles off shore. You are right that it won't matter. But inside of 3 miles has a toxic effect whether you can see the point or not. Its not just you..there are hundreds of boats within three miles of shore. Think about it, the Chesapeake would show the effects of hundreds of boats on a weekend dumping directly into the water.

Moreover, rationalizing polluting by suggesting that there are others who are far worse does not excuse polluting. It's like throwing trash on the side of a dirty highway because its dirty. Thats just stupid right?

You right about one thing, raw sewage is dumped directly into the water throughout the world. Particularly in places like Hawaii and the Carribean. But you should not use that as a rationale for polluting.

Here is the reality: All over the Carribean it is no longer safe to eat locally caught fish because of a bacterial disease that is caused by exposure to raw sewage. I spend a month in Puerto Rico every winter and it has gotten really bad. This past winter it was so bad in St. John that local restaraunts were posting signs advertising that the fish was shipped in from safer waters. We go to the Islands to get away from pollution right?

So it is an issue that is serious and one that we as sailors need to be concerned about. We are after all sailors. Because we use the water we have a responsibility to protect it. That is my only point.

One final point, I am not some kind of environmental wacko. Frankly, I am not liberal on any issue. However, I spend a lot of time in the Carribean and in South America so I have a chance to see the effect of pollution in much more fragile ecosystems. If intelligent people like us, (the sailing community), don't do anything about it who will?

Last edited by Surfesq; 07-18-2006 at 10:16 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-19-2006
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Thanks for the comments, I didn't want to come off as a uncaring to the enviroment. I do see the problem with discharging in the 3-mile radius, and I would never think of breaking this and I have seen the first-hand effects of mass dumping of sewage and I don't want to follow in that path.

I didn't want to spark a debate, as I thought it was clear I was asking if outside the 3-mile rule would be ok...so if some people misunderstood my question, thats not what I meant at all.
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  #20  
Old 07-21-2006
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Hey Wally...

Thanks for taking a load off as the new member who is being jumped on by Surfesq (aka Wanker Man) when it comes to asking relevent but misunderstood questions.

I used to hold that title, but will happily pass it on to you.

You are neither an unresponsible boater nor a pollutor - just a man with a question.

And, if Surf does follow through on his disgusting threat, please call hazmat!
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