Looking into Live Aboard life style and need advice. - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 08-26-2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,192
Thanks: 50
Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 14
knothead has a spectacular aura about knothead has a spectacular aura about knothead has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor77
I am all swept up with grandiose dreams of sailing my boat that I need a third party opinion.
I applaud your desire to reasearch.
Please keep in mind that the reality seldom mirrors the dream that inspired it.
I've lived in situations that, at the time, seemed perfectly acceptable if not comfortable. Some, maybe most of those situations would be very difficult for me to adapt to at this point in time.
Times change, body's change, culture changes. When I was a kid, you could just about anchor anywhere, tie your dingy up to the city wharf and get a job in the local economy. It's not so easy to do anymore.
When I was younger, I actually enjoyed waking up with frost on my mustache. Now, I think my joints would be so stiff, I would have trouble getting out of my mummy bag.
There was a time that a bucket was perfectly acceptable. And while I maybe could get used to that again, I think my wife would put her foot down there. (oh yeah, maritial status is another thing that changes)
Anyway, please don't think I am in anyway trying to discourage you or your dreams. Without those, life is a dreary undertaking at best. Rather, I encourage you to pursue them, but with the realization that a dream is usually an adventure also. Good luck.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 08-27-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Alienagw is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Skype™ to Alienagw
Hi ERKA,

Would you say it's cheaper living ashore or on your boat?
Thanks
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 08-27-2006
sailandoar's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cape Fear, NC, USA
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
sailandoar is on a distinguished road
Consider shallow draft

Consider shallow draft and how much the 'fun world' of boating expands when you can slip into the little bays and creeks. Consider how much more secure you will feel when the list of possible 'safe shelters' expands to double or triple or more in size. Consider the cost savings if you can beach the boat on the tide and check, repair, paint the bottom. Consider the comfort, ease if you can let the boat dry out with the tide for storage of when anchoring for the night. Consider the peace of mind when running the ICW that is now underfunded and shoaling up. Consider that with marinas becoming fewer and MORE expensive that a boat that can sit at a dock most other folks (4'+ draft) can't use has many more options and can save a LOT of money on dockage.

Consider that Commodore Monroe (friend of L.F. Herresoff) sailed his round bilge sharpies from FL to New England regularly. James Wharrm cats cross oceans regularly. Most boats don't sail the North Altantic in the winter time, in fact most boats don't sail regularly. The dream is to sail from A to B to C. The reality is that 99% of the boats life is spent sitting (hopefully, beautifully/comfortably but never-the-less SITTING) at A or B or C. Deep draft does not EQUAL seaworthy or capable by itself and most folks get deep draft for the wrong reason and pay dearly for it. Ever notice the boats in the marina that JUST SIT! No where else to be/sit and too hard to use. Imagine a home that can slip up a creek like a big kayak and can be left almost anywhere.

Consider:
Shannon shoal sailer
Westerly bilge keel model
Gemini cat
Wharram Cat
Reuel Parker sharpie design
etc, etc.

Right now we draw just under 6' and it is VERY limiting and VERY expensive and we are not doing justice to the boat. We expect that to change but in the long run for live aboard (as opposed to traveling/voyaging) we will change to shallow draft. That is not at all to say that shallow does not voyage. We have a character boat (gaff pinky schooner) and that is a big part of it. Trying to make the 'piece of history' work and figure out the 'old ways' is our goal for now and that drives the choice of design/deep-draft.

Last edited by sailandoar; 08-27-2006 at 08:03 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 08-27-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Sailandoar makes some very good points, and ones that I'd strongly agree with. Many deep draft boats are less than seaworthy, and having a shallow draft doesn't automatically make a boat unseaworthy. Especially in the case of multihulls. Many catamarans have made long bluewater ocean passages, and were designed to do so. The Gemini Cat has an EU RCD rating of A, Ocean.

Many more hurricane holes are open to a boat with a draft of less than 3', than are available to those with drafts of 5'+. And fewer boats are competing for those same hurricane holes just before a big storm hits.

Many more marinas are available to boats with shallow drafts, as well as many more protected anchorages. Having more choices means keeping the boat in a marina slip might be less expensive—more choices means a wider price range.

I sail a trimaran, and it only draws 18" when I have the board up. It is designed, like many of the cats, to be beachable, and doesn't mind sitting on the mud or sand when the water dries up.

Some people will say that multihulls have the disadvantage of turning turtle—capsizing and not re-righting themselves. True. However, a properly sailed catamaran or trimaran is very difficutl to capsize, primarily due to the great inital stability their form provides. Most non-sailing vessels can not re-right themselves, including most large merchant ships, fishing trawlers, military ships, etc.

Many monohulls have the problem of sinking, as they fill up with water and can not recover, once they have been knocked down. They will re-right themselves, and be very happy, sitting on the bottom of the ocean, right side up. However, a multihull has a far higher chance of not sinking, as most are made of buoyant materials, and have no heavy cast iron or lead keel to bring them to the bottom.

Multihull designs go back thousands of years, and were used by Polynesian islanders to make ocean crossings in the southern Pacific, long before the monohulls used in Europe ever did.

Catamarans provide a great deal more living space than a comparable length monohull. The smaller catamarans are more weight sensitive than their larger counterparts or comparable length monohulls, due to their low mass and relatively narrow hulls. However, if you can resist the urge to load up a sailing cat with everything in the world, you can sail them well and far faster than a comparable length monohull.

One of my favorite videos making this point is located on this website.

Trimarans, while generally providing better sailing performance than a catamaran, will also generally provide less space than a comparable length monohull, at least in the smaller sizes. In the very large sizes, the amas and a bridge deck can make the trimarans very spacious, but these are both very rare and extremely expensive. I regularly outsail 40-45' boats on my tri, and my trimaran is not a lightweight, outfitted for racing and camping on water type trimaran.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 08-27-2006
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: subject to change
Posts: 1,264
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
eryka is on a distinguished road
Alienagw- Unfortunately, your question is a lot like asking 'how much does a car cost?' The answer is 'it depends.' (Are you thinking BMW, or Chevy?) The short answer: If you're buying a new boat just to live on while you work a day job in the corporate world, you probably won't be saving money, between the cost of dockage and boat payments it'll be a wash. But if you love sailing and own a boat anyway, it's a whole different game -- and a LOT more fun.

I can't answer in general, but I can give you some ideas based on the Washington DC area: 2 BR apt rents for about $1100 - $1600/month, electricity $80-$100. Dockage for a 35-40' boat (i.e., 2 cabins): $6000 - $8000/yr in Annapolis or Washington DC; $2500 - $4000/yr in Baltimore or south of Annap. (Cost of said boat, $25,000 - $250,000 and up, so again it really depends on your boat status going into this.) Liveaboard fees (generally include electricity & water & mail) $80-$100/month. Renter's insurance, $300/yr; boat insurance (depends on your boat's agreed value, your experience level, and your cruising area, about $500 - $1000/yr or more for Chesapeake). Cellphone or landline, same costs as on land. Pumping holding tanks, $0 - $5/pump (every week or 2) in season. In winter, use marina's bathouse, or bag-and-bucket, or have someone come to you while your boat's iced in for the outrageous price of $35/per, according to our neighbors. Boat maintenance, figure 5-10% of value depending on complexity of systems, how much you cruise, and how handy you are. You'll probably use a U-Stor-It for all the stuff that doesn't quite fit on the boat, $35-$100/month depending on how much 'stuff' you store. Hope this helps - E.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 08-27-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I think Eryka's got it pretty well covered. However, since you did say that you would most likely only be living aboard for the spring and summer, you'll incur far more costs than a full-time liveaboard. You'll probably have to get renter's insurance for your apartment or winter living accomdations. You'll also be paying for the winter living accommodations, and the winter storage of the boat. It might make more sense to liveaboard year-round, provided you can find a marina, in your area, that will allow you to do so.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 08-28-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Sailor77 is on a distinguished road
Howdy

I can't thank you enough for the plethora of information being thrown out at me. I appreciate everyones input. I really do love Cats but they are a bit out of my price range. In fact a ideal sailing vessel to me would be a cat. I have not seen any Catamarans for under 100,000 dollars as yet though. Have you? I really do love sailing and apart from a place to live (and pick up chicks haha) then main reason I am considering a live aboard is because I love sailing and the water. I have been steadily looking at sailboats over the net so far. I have found that most of the best deals on boats come from Florida. Do you find this to be true? I am shipping back out on my ship in a few days but I will try to get some shore time in to check up on the chat forum. Thanks again for all of your input and Happy sails!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 08-28-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I'd be wary of alot of the boats that come from Florida. There were a lot of boats that were sunk, water-damaged, or salvaged last year, due to the hurricanes that hit the whole gulf coast area, and there are some very unscrupulous people out there, selling very badly damaged boats, and not offering full disclosure on them.

Any deal that seems too good to be true, usually is.

In general, boats from the warmer states are generally in far worse shape than their older counterparts from colder states, where the boats are stored for part of the year on the hard, like New England. Part of the reason is the annual exposure of the boat to the elements is lower, and the dry storage allows the boat's hull to dry out—reducing the risk of osmosis type problems. The sails are usually in better shape, as they will have less UV-related damage, etc..

Used, you could probably find a decent Cat for under $100K. New, some of the smaller ones are only $150K or so. The Gemini 105MC, TomCat 9.7, and the MaineCat 30 are among the models of cats in the smaller size range. Of them, the Gemini is probably the best, as it has the longest waterline and narrowest beam, which makes it able to fit in some single slips.

The only real problem with getting a cat is finding a place to put it.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 08-30-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Sailor77 is on a distinguished road
Howdy Folks any suggestions on a shallow keel live aboard that is reasonably priced. The Mean low water around me is only 3 feet!
Thanks
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 08-30-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
That is one advantage of the Cats. All of them have a draft of less than 2.5' with the centerboard up... And they really don't mind if the tide goes out and leaves them sitting on a mud or sand bottom, since they're pretty much able to dry out like that.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012