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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #31  
Old 09-04-2007
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Rockter will become famous soon enough
I fitted an Eberspacher 3 kW about 14 years ago, and it is still working. It will heat the boat, but a solid fuel heater is superb at drying the boat. It means a through deck though, so I did not go for it.

I paid the penalty for believing that a hull in liquid water would not freeze the engine. The air just got cold enough (reportedly -14 degC, 7 degF that night), and froze the raw water cooled block. It cracked.
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  #32  
Old 09-04-2007
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Wow, Rockter...
The engine freezing presents a challenge. Would moving water through raw water part of the cooling system help? Mine has a heat exchanger, as I understand. So the only part will freeze is the pump and the exchanger.
I guess I would have to winterize the engine for the winter. That sucks!
I hoped to be able to take short trips around Casco Bay on nicer days...
I have seen sailboats out in the Portland harbour in the dead of winter.
Any ideas...?
Thanks

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  #33  
Old 09-04-2007
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"So the only part will freeze is the pump and the exchanger. "
You'd still need to look at preventing freezing. Either by draining them, heating them (heat tape and an insulating overwrap) or other means. And closing off the raw water intake on the hull, to make sure ice doesn't form in the through-hull and split it open.

"New England Yankee...Nuclear Power Plant & Year Round Ice-Free Marina"
So, the boat glows fainly in the night.
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  #34  
Old 09-04-2007
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Re: Freezing raw water...
Would it be possible to drain raw water from the cooling system after each engine run? I bet you can't get it all out.... Could you run engine dry for a few seconds to clear the exhaust?
If the sea-**** is shut, there shouldn't be much water in the thruhull. But you are right, if it is cold enough, the thruhull would be the coldest part in the hull (underwater). How about other through hulls? Head intake/exhaust?
It seems that a boat in the water in winter has to be heated constantly...
Thanks for the heads up...something else to ponder, while I am wiping sweat from my brow...
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  #35  
Old 09-05-2007
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NEED YOUR ADVICE -- wintering over in Boston Harbor

Thank you all. Your suggestions to the original query have been very helpful to me.

I'm wintering over at Constitution Wharf marina in Boston harbor where, I'm told, about 50 boats spend the winter there. Circumnavigator Webb Chiles stayed there for five years and the second chapter in his newest book describes much of what you described: bubblepack for portlight insulation, Reflectix to block off unheated areas, insulation on the deck.

I'd planned to line lockers with clear vinyl carpet runner material, thinking the little feet would allow any condensation to run into the bilge, and it would keep the rest of my stuff dry. I used it in my older Bristols so that my clothes and stuff wouldn't snag on the hand-laid (and sometimes spiny) fiberglas, and because old Bristols suffered hull-deck joint leaks. Any opinions?

Where is the condensation the worst? On the overhead? Inside lockers? Against the hull?

Calibers (I have a Caliber 28) haven't any core in the hull and a plywood core in the deck, as the fbg is hand-laid. Am I particularly susceptible to cold or heat loss?

I thought I'd use an oil-filled heater just to maintain 45-50 degrees. I also own a Dickinson solid fuel heater, for when I'm there -- I'm a furnituremaker and generate a lot of scrap hardwood, and I'll add additional flue to the existing deck stack, up through the enclosure to outside air. I was also thinking about PVC pipes connected to the Dorades (fresh air to the fireplace) with a 90 elbow and 45 elbow pointing down, at the top, so snow couldn't come down the tubes. Seem logical for fresh air in the heaviest snows?

Another area where I need help is relative height of enclosure. I've made some terrific boat cover frames over the years, but I would really prefer to be able to stand up (or stoop slightly), on the side decks and foredeck, inside the enclosure. Would I be nuts to risk that much surface area to the wind --- 3' topsides and 5' enclosure sidewall? Only thing in my favor is that the winter boats are tucked into the inner docks, next to the Harborwalk seawall, and I make serious frames.

One final question. I'd thought about anchoring the frame just two inches inside the perforated metal toerail, so that if I had to repair the enclosure during the winter, I'd have a place to stand. Snow wouldn't shed quite as easily, and ice might form, but if my cover went to the outside of the toerail and I had to make a repair....?

I'd appreciate any and all advice, whether you think my ideas are good or bad, either here or to my email address which is my sailnet name at verizon.net. Your advice can't be as harsh as the coming winter, and may very well be just the advice I needed.

Thanks, in advance, for your guidance.

Last edited by coreywoodworking; 09-05-2007 at 12:42 AM.
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  #36  
Old 09-05-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coreywoodworking View Post
I'd planned to line lockers with clear vinyl carpet runner material, thinking the little feet would allow any condensation to run into the bilge, and it would keep the rest of my stuff dry. I used it in my older Bristols so that my clothes and stuff wouldn't snag on the hand-laid (and sometimes spiny) fiberglas, and because old Bristols suffered hull-deck joint leaks. Any opinions?
Should work pretty well.

Quote:
Where is the condensation the worst? On the overhead? Inside lockers? Against the hull?

Calibers (I have a Caliber 28) haven't any core in the hull and a plywood core in the deck, as the fbg is hand-laid. Am I particularly susceptible to cold or heat loss?
The worst condensation will probably be in the lockers against the hull. The deck is cored, so that should have slightly better insulation value than the plain GRP hull. Cored hulls are better insulated, since they're both thicker and most core materials are fairly decent insulators.

Quote:
I thought I'd use an oil-filled heater just to maintain 45-50 degrees. I also own a Dickinson solid fuel heater, for when I'm there -- I'm a furnituremaker and generate a lot of scrap hardwood, and I'll add additional flue to the existing deck stack, up through the enclosure to outside air. I was also thinking about PVC pipes connected to the Dorades (fresh air to the fireplace) with a 90 elbow and 45 elbow pointing down, at the top, so snow couldn't come down the tubes. Seem logical for fresh air in the heaviest snows?
Be careful with the dorades. They can also let a lot of heat out, since they're at the top of the cabin and heat rises. Also, they can let exhaust from the heater in if the wind is right. It would probably also be a good idea to have the interior vent to the dorades extended to down lower, where they wouldn't act as a heat pump quite so effectively.

Quote:
Another area where I need help is relative height of enclosure. I've made some terrific boat cover frames over the years, but I would really prefer to be able to stand up (or stoop slightly), on the side decks and foredeck, inside the enclosure. Would I be nuts to risk that much surface area to the wind --- 3' topsides and 5' enclosure sidewall? Only thing in my favor is that the winter boats are tucked into the inner docks, next to the Harborwalk seawall, and I make serious frames.
If the area is well-protected, a taller enclosure, may actually make more sense... it will shed snow better than a flatter one would.

Quote:
One final question. I'd thought about anchoring the frame just two inches inside the perforated metal toerail, so that if I had to repair the enclosure during the winter, I'd have a place to stand. Snow wouldn't shed quite as easily, and ice might form, but if my cover went to the outside of the toerail and I had to make a repair....?
Why couldn't you repair it from the inside??? I wouldn't risk having ice and snow build up on the deck... it gets heavy awfully fast. Most New England snow is the heavy wet kind that is good for snowballs and snowmen, but is very heavy per volume, not the fluffy white powdery stuff you see in Colorado.
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  #37  
Old 09-05-2007
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I just talked to one marina about winter and they were adamant: either their own shrink wrap or nothing! No tarps, clear film or anything... That would spoil the good looks of the place. I can understand that, sort of.
Is snow on deck a big nuisance? It should melt fairly quickly, and any excess should get blown off, anyway.
Am I being optimistic? I have seen ice covered fishing boats in the harbor, but I assume it was from water spray out in the ocean. Unless we get one of those ice storms again. Brrr. Shrink wrap would not help...

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  #38  
Old 09-05-2007
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Originally Posted by zaliasvejas View Post
I just talked to one marina about winter and they were adamant: either their own shrink wrap or nothing! No tarps, clear film or anything... That would spoil the good looks of the place. I can understand that, sort of.
UGh... but if you want a slip..they can do that...

Quote:
Is snow on deck a big nuisance? It should melt fairly quickly, and any excess should get blown off, anyway.
Snow on the deck is a serious hazard... and often melts and turns to ice... which can land you in the water or on the dock the hard way...and on the way to the hospital. Snow doesn't often blow away, especially the wet stuff that New England is famous for.
Quote:
Am I being optimistic? I have seen ice covered fishing boats in the harbor, but I assume it was from water spray out in the ocean. Unless we get one of those ice storms again. Brrr. Shrink wrap would not help...

The Seeker
yes, you're being optimistic... any time the wind blows and there is water in the air, you can get a pretty serious buildup of ice on the deck and rigging of a sailboat... that's a serious problem...and in the case of some fishing boats, has caused them to capsize... not good.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #39  
Old 09-05-2007
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All right, Sailingdog,
So what now! Ice in the rigging, ice on deck... you can't just salt the thing, or can you...? A bucket off sea water... easy to get, just cut a hole in the ice.
Will I have to resort to sledge hammers and baseball bats, like I have seen CG ships do. One has to do something....
Any thoughts? Has anyone heard of less destructive approach? This winter living thing sounds challenging already..

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  #40  
Old 09-05-2007
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Drop the mast, maybe use it as a ridge pole or store it ashore. Cover the whole boat in shrink wrap with a good slope so the snow & ice will slide off. Shrink wrap is heated to fit tightly and will resist most sagging from the weight if it has decent slope.
You said they wouldn't allow semi-transparent wrap. What are they allowing, only white? Wow, a color coordinated yard. Is this in Kennebunkport?
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