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She will be used for living aboard in South Florida about 85% of the time and coastal day sailing the other 15%. About the most adventurous I would get is sailing to the Bahamas for short periods or half loops a year to avoid winter and hurricane season.
I really don't want anything with a wooden or cored hull. I would prefer solid fiberglass decks as well, but that is hard to find.
Wife, teenager, and three dogs. Statistically five years from now it'll be me, her, and one dog given everyone's ages. 33-37 footer to accommodate all this, probably center cockpit.
Really liked the nonsuch concept, but cored hulls ruled that out. Really liked the Moody's all glass construction but it probably isn't the best boat for our planned use (?) as a Bluewater boat with 5'6" draft. O'day 37? Columbia 36?
The CSYs seem to be well regarded and although a small community the consensus seems to be that they are well built. The only catch I see is I don't see so much as an aft quarterberth in the layout so where to stow the teenager becomes an issue...?
If most of your sailing is going to be around Florida and the Bahamas, then I would advise that you rule out anything with a draft deeper than 5 feet. Yes, of course, (someone is bound to say) you can go lots of places with a draft deeper than that. It's true, you can. If you stick mostly to the channels, pay close attention to the charts, and remain continuously aware of where the tide is in its cycle. Even then there will be a lot of places that you CANNOT go.
In this part of the world it is just a whole lot easier -- especially if you are neither racing, nor in need of a serious ocean-crossing boat -- to stick with a shallower draft and not have to worry as much about running aground. (And even if you stick to a draft of no more than 5 feet, you will STILL have to worry a little bit about running aground!)
So why is coring bad? It provides for a lighter, stiffer structure.
I understand that leaks around fittings can be problematic, but if a boat is properly maintained, that should not be a show stopper. My 27 yr old deck and hull are balsa cored and are still going strong.
Maybe the OP needs to concentrate on build quality and evidence of proper maintenance--whatever the construction.
You will be able to find boats without a cored hull, but finding one without a cored deck is going to be just about impossible. Not a big deal to have it surveyed to insure the deck is solid.
And I would expand your search to include boats with an aft cabin, not just center cockpit boats. Will give you enough privacy with the private cabins at the two opposite ends of the boat. Something like a Bene 361 or Catalina 36 with a wing keel.
Cored hulls are not inherently bad. They are just more susceptible to issues than a non-cored hull. They have to be checked very carefully, and you have to be aware that delamination, or moisture in the core, can be very expensive to fix.
As an added data point, my Rafiki has a partial cored hull (down to the enclosed keel). It was built in 1977 and has no hull issues. Our core is airex, not balsa. The key, to me, is the quality of design and build.
If you can find one, and ignore the wood core, I would go with either the Morgan 33 Out Island or the Morgan 41 Out Island, both of which are great live aboards. The 41 is a center console boat with a great aft cabin. Both boats have a huge amount of storage, a 4-foot draft, full keel, sail great offshore, and more interior space than boats much larger.
CSY 37 is worth a look esp if you find one that has had a recent refit. Tough as old boots very roomy because of the flush deck layout. NB there are two versions you want the owners with the toilet in the forepeak.
IMHO 33 ft is too small to make the center cockpit work, at 37 it works [sometimes].
Moving...if this was me, for what it's worth, I wouldn't necessarily narrow in on specific brands, etc. I'd go shopping in my price range. There are some questions I'd ask myself about what matters most to you and your family, and try and bring a little rational thought into it.
Pointing performance vs. Draft
Offshore comfort vs life at anchor
Complexity/comfort vs simplicity/cost
Beauty (IMHO this means varnish/brightwork,etc) vs Ease of Maintenance
etc.
All that said, yachts aren't rational decisions. If they were, no one would have one because they are about the worst financial decision you can make. Once you acknowledge this, then you completely realize the reason to own one is to make you and the people you care about happy.
You might decide that for example you want no brightwork, but then you'll go see this boat that is gleaming with brightwork and just need to have it.
You might decide that you want to sail fast, then you'll go sea a full keel classic with wooden spars and just melt.
You might decide that simplicity is the key, then you see a boat with a generator, air conditioning, and power furling and ....
IMHO you can fool yourself into thinking you are going to do this rationally, or you can go shopping and admit the truth. Buy what you love. You'll know it when you see it.
Moving...if this was me, for what it's worth, I wouldn't necessarily narrow in on specific brands, etc. I'd go shopping in my price range. There are some questions I'd ask myself about what matters most to you and your family, and try and bring a little rational thought into it.
Pointing performance vs. Draft
Offshore comfort vs life at anchor
Complexity/comfort vs simplicity/cost
Beauty (IMHO this means varnish/brightwork,etc) vs Ease of Maintenance
etc.
All that said, yachts aren't rational decisions. If they were, no one would have one because they are about the worst financial decision you can make. Once you acknowledge this, then you completely realize the reason to own one is to make you and the people you care about happy.
You might decide that for example you want no brightwork, but then you'll go see this boat that is gleaming with brightwork and just need to have it.
You might decide that you want to sail fast, then you'll go sea a full keel classic with wooden spars and just melt.
You might decide that simplicity is the key, then you see a boat with a generator, air conditioning, and power furling and ....
IMHO you can fool yourself into thinking you are going to do this rationally, or you can go shopping and admit the truth. Buy what you love. You'll know it when you see it.
So after doing some looking an Island Packet AC seemed to provide the best compromise of live ability and sail ability.
Which the other half liked..till she saw the floating condominium that is an Irwin CC. I have some concerns about the deck which has developed multiple hairline cracks in what looks to me like the glass around the bowsprit and forward corners of the cabin.
Still need to find a CSY 37 to look at.
The beam of the out island 41 is too wide for our parking garage and I would like to stay in the 35-38 foot range so the out island 33 is probably out.
Pointing performance vs. Draft
Offshore comfort vs life at anchor
Complexity/comfort vs simplicity/cost
Beauty (IMHO this means varnish/brightwork,etc) vs Ease of Maintenance
Draft is limited by where we are going to be going and location. Less than five feet. I am willing to sacrifice bright work for ease of maintenance.
Complexity vs simplicity: willing.to come down on the side of some complexity to make life easier.
Comfort underway vs comfort at shore is probably the toughest decision. What I envisioned to be the best sailing of what we looked at, a relatively narrow beam for its length gulfstar 40 with a traditional layout would be completely unliveable for the three of us not offering so much as an aft quarterberth for my son.
The beam of the out island 41 is too wide for our parking garage and I would like to stay in the 35-38 foot range so the out island 33 is probably out.
Ah, no...i meant that tongue in cheek. Our slip won't accommodate anything with a beam greater than 13 feet.
Any thoughts about a heritage west indies 38 in terms of trying to approximate the forward-aft layout the missus liked but avoiding the workmanship issues that concerned me when I saw the irwin?
The final four based on interior layout that would give us the room we wanted, non cored hull, quality of construction, motion comfort and capsize rating.
Endeavor 37' Plan A
Chris Craft 35 Caribbean
Pearson 365
Morgan Out Island 33
Three people and three dogs can fit in a 50 gallon drum if you push hard enough. For a crew that size I'd need 65'.
Only you can say what you can live with.
I'm a bit prejudiced, but for the past 5 years, the Morgan 33 Out Island has been the only boat for my needs. Yesterday, I sailed the Chesapeake's upper reaches in total comfort, enjoyed 10 MPH winds and sailed along close hauled most of the day at speeds of 5.5 to 6.3 MPH on just the main and a 100-percent jib. The boat heeled about 4 degrees at most.
Endeavor 37 A Plan
Morgan Out Island 37/372 (although larger than the aforementioned 50 gallon drum - and possibly looking somewhat like it - the 33 was too small)
Chris Craft Caribbean 35
Although sailboat data only lists 2 sets of numbers for the Chris Craft (sloop vs ketch), apparently in the early 70s they outsourced manufacturing to a Tawianese yard which affected quality. They also raised the cockpit to allow an interior passage to the aft berth which helped the perceived interior size when below but apparently affected the comfort of the vessel under way though the sailboat calculator only lists one version of the boat and the relevant numbers that go into that equation haven't changed.
The endeavor plan A really seems to be separating itself from the pack though.
If I win the lottery between now and this fall, I'm getting a Hinckley Bermuda 40, and that's that.
Endeavor 37 A Plan
Morgan Out Island 37/372 (although larger than the aforementioned 50 gallon drum - and possibly looking somewhat like it - the 33 was too small)
Chris Craft Caribbean 35
.
.
.
If I win the lottery between now and this fall, I'm getting a Hinckley Bermuda 40, and that's that.
Overall length can be deceiving. The Bermuda 40 has about 12' of overhang that doesn't translate to a lot of interior volume. The B-40, for example, has a LWL that is only a foot longer than Gary's 33 OI and they appear to have similar useable interior space.
The B-40 may have added up front costs, but it will hold its value much better than most, so maybe you could rationalize it. Besides, the B-40 is prettier than 99% of the boats out there and owner pride has to be worth something.
You might also check out the Block Island 40 which, like the Bermuda 40, was designed by Tripp and is similar in appearance. They aren't cheap, but dreams are free.
She will be used for living aboard in South Florida about 85% of the time and coastal day sailing the other 15%. About the most adventurous I would get is sailing to the Bahamas for short periods or half loops a year to avoid winter and hurricane season.
...
Really liked the nonsuch concept, but cored hulls ruled that out. Really liked the Moody's all glass construction but it probably isn't the best boat for our planned use (?) as a Bluewater boat with 5'6" draft. O'day 37? Columbia 36?
Ironically, the earlier poster who recommended a shoal draft/less than 5' was absolutely correct. Paradoxically if this area was "bluewater" and could more easily accomodate boats with a deeper draft it would open up my options more. As it is, I'm looking for 4'5" or less, or a centerboard.
The Chris Craft has fallen off the list, the Out Island is looking better though a 37 instead of a 33.
Why? As others have noted coring is a great way to provide great strength at light weight. It also provides insulation that helps tremendously keeping the boat cool in warm weather and warm in cold. Synthetics such as Divinicell avoid many of the problems long associated with wood cores such as balsa.
Wife, teenager, and three dogs. Statistically five years from now it'll be me, her, and one dog given everyone's ages. 33-37 footer to accommodate all this, probably center cockpit.
That's a lot of life forms in a very small space. How long can the six of you stand to share a single hotel room? Boats in the size range you cite will have less total space than that hotel room.
You're going to have to be very clear about your vocabulary. Moody's are outstanding boats. I can't think of one that--in good shape--I would not take offshore.
Here is my vocabulary: offshore is a passage longer than good weather forecasts. Newport or Norfolk to Bermuda are just barely offshore. Offshore is being on a boat where your bailouts are three days away. Bermuda to Tortola is offshore. Florida to the Bahamas is not offshore. It has its own challenges but it is not offshore. People do it on jetskis all the time.
Moving...if this was me, for what it's worth, I wouldn't necessarily narrow in on specific brands, etc. I'd go shopping in my price range. There are some questions I'd ask myself about what matters most to you and your family, and try and bring a little rational thought into it.
Pointing performance vs. Draft
Offshore comfort vs life at anchor
Complexity/comfort vs simplicity/cost
Beauty (IMHO this means varnish/brightwork,etc) vs Ease of Maintenance
etc.
All that said, yachts aren't rational decisions. If they were, no one would have one because they are about the worst financial decision you can make. Once you acknowledge this, then you completely realize the reason to own one is to make you and the people you care about happy.
You might decide that for example you want no brightwork, but then you'll go see this boat that is gleaming with brightwork and just need to have it.
You might decide that you want to sail fast, then you'll go sea a full keel classic with wooden spars and just melt.
You might decide that simplicity is the key, then you see a boat with a generator, air conditioning, and power furling and ....
IMHO you can fool yourself into thinking you are going to do this rationally, or you can go shopping and admit the truth. Buy what you love. You'll know it when you see it.
The final four based on interior layout that would give us the room we wanted, non cored hull, quality of construction, motion comfort and capsize rating.
Endeavor 37' Plan A
Chris Craft 35 Caribbean
Pearson 365
Morgan Out Island 33
"BALSA CORE = COMPOST
You may think this title a little harsh but given the amount of rotten balsa I see through my surveys I think it is warranted."
"This article was prompted by the experience of a friend in Toronto who bought a 2002 model boat, titled and launched in the spring of 2004 and after spending only 16 weeks in water developed a crack at one of two throughulls over the winter storage period.
He asked me to take a look. I found about 3'sq' around one throughull with very high moisture levels and dull percusive soundings. I told him to pull the throughull fitting as it was not unusual for the builders to forget to seal the core after drilling a hole for the fittings......guess what......he removed the fittings and found saturated balsa core . It is very likely that the crack at this throughull was caused by the water expanding as it froze over the winter. After I left he pulled another throughull and found the same condition
To see high moisture levels in the core in a modern vessel which has spent only 16 weeks in water is in my opinion inexcusable and certainly does not suggest a long healthy life for this boat."
N=1, but discretion is always the better part of valor. A cored deck is OK, I'm sticking to the no cored hull requirement.
...and yes, the more we see, the more the LOA/LWL/Beam go up and the more my wife likes the interior layout on an assortment of newer Hunters/Catalinas/Beneteaus.
I'm half recording my thoughts during this process here to keep an objective record of them, and half so that those who come after me can see how one's thinking changes as you go through this process.
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