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Looking to go live aboard in SF Bay area.

6K views 26 replies 10 participants last post by  midwesterner 
#1 ·
Hello all, my first post here so please be gentle.
Through my local Craig's list I've looked at several power boats. A couple Chris Crafts and Stephans boats from the 50's. These would be wooden boats of course. The deboats range in size from 51' to 67'. All but one needs a haul out and a bottom job.
What I'm realizing is that I'm not going to find a live aboard slip in the close in bay area. I'm going to have to start and he out rand get my name on the live aboard lists and be patient.
I've wanted to live on a boat since high school when spent a lot of time on a friend's 28' perch.
Also practically speaking I never be able to afford to buy a home in Oakland where the ugliest house in the scariest neighbor sells for 500k!?!

I guess the question I'm asking is, these old cruising hatches can they make good live aboard homes? I have my 8yr old every other weekend and I want this to be an experience we can both share.
 
#2 ·
Chris Crfat Constellation on your list? We had family friends with one, when I was a kid. We would use it on vacation, when my younger sisters got older and didn't all fit on Dad's boat. To my recollection it was a 5 to 1 boat. 5 parts fixing for every part enjoying.

Bottom line, an old woody like these will be very difficult and expensive to keep seaworthy, let alone to live aboard. An old hull, like you're considering, can easily throw you thousands of $$ in issues, without notice. For starters, I would want a fiberglass hull. Those old hulls also has pretty antiquated systems. Alcohol stoves and ice chests were still considered modern back then. To live aboard, I want propane, modern low energy consumption electric refrigeration and air conditioning. I would also consider something smaller and more manageable, if you'll be alone most of the time. Being this is a sailing forum, you'll not likely find the broadest input on buying a powerboat, if that's your firm plan.

How familiar are you, with boats, in general? A home that can sink requires some basic knowledge to be safe, even at the dock. Lots of good reading out there. Good luck.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I'm guessing you have no idea of the cost of maintaining a 51' to 67' wooden boat. Even if you got one free you'd probably dump upwards of 30k in the first year with just a haul out and repairs necessary to keep her afloat.
You absolutely will not be able to get insurance on an old tired woody these days, and that will keep you out of most boat yards and marinas and possibly off many moorings.
As Cal is bat excrement crazy about environmental issues, you will probably get frequent visits from the water LEO's to make sure your MSD's are working properly and to check that your boat won't sink soon and create an environmental disaster.
A 51' wooden boat is a very, very expensive boat to maintain, even if it's in pristine condition. An old junker, which it sounds like you are looking at, will cost you more than a house on Nob Hill, in the long run!
If you are wondering how I know these things, I owned a gaff ketch built in 1909 that I sailed through the SoPac for 5.5 years and operated a USCG certified passenger sailing tour boat on day trips that was built in 1906. Professionally, I completely rebuilt a mahogany Chris Connie for an owner, and he spent nearly as much as he would have to purchase a new boat, on that old, tired Connie.
Even if you are a master carpenter and think you can do most of the work yourself, let me assure you that carpentry and boatbuilding have only the fact that the material you work with is the same, in common. On most wooden (actually all) boats a hammer is most often used on mechanical work, not wood.
So as stated above, run, run fast, from an old wooden boat, unless you are a very, very wealthy person.
 
#5 ·
Hello all, my first post here so please be gentle.
Through my local Craig's list I've looked at several power boats. A couple Chris Crafts and Stephans boats from the 50's. These would be wooden boats of course. The deboats range in size from 51' to 67'. All but one needs a haul out and a bottom job.
What I'm realizing is that I'm not going to find a live aboard slip in the close in bay area. I'm going to have to start and he out rand get my name on the live aboard lists and be patient.
I've wanted to live on a boat since high school when spent a lot of time on a friend's 28' perch.
Also practically speaking I never be able to afford to buy a home in Oakland where the ugliest house in the scariest neighbor sells for 500k!?!

I guess the question I'm asking is, these old cruising hatches can they make good live aboard homes? I have my 8yr old every other weekend and I want this to be an experience we can both share.
the guys are correct ...the wife and I had a 50' Trumpy with twin 671s and every haul out was a nail biter, and they were free to us...I don;t think the transom was ever correct, nor did they last more than 4 or 5 years and replace again. It was her father's boat.

The other question for CA folks, is that there has been case law, as regards the custody of a child and you wanting to keep him aboard...you might check with your attorney, do not talk to DCF..and see what the current status is. I know of a couple of cases 5-7 years ago that resulted in custody issues, because the boat was deemed unsafe and not a proper "home".

Wood boat....RUN.....as if that thing was on fire....They sure are beautiful when kept in bristol fashion
 
#6 ·
I do recall hearing of cases of child neglect aboard boats. However, I don't think it was the boat, per se. It was the neglectful parents, who neither cared for their kids, nor the boat. Nevertheless, it's good advice to be sure that boat owning single parents haven't been painted with the same brush.
 
#13 ·
I had a bit different experience with child services when I got back into US waters.
The state sponsored busybodies had absolutely no understanding of liveaboard life. They were very quick to make judgements without taking into account the years my child and I had been together on the boat, before I came into their jurisdiction, never mind the miles we'd sailed together. The whole 7 years of her life were spent with me on a circumnavigation.
She was healthy, happy and loved. However, these things were of little importance to them. I doubt they were even on their checklists.
I would suggest that any single liveaboard parent avoid these folks like the plague. Fly under the radar and tell no one you live aboard. Lie to everyone official; the school, the doctor, even your child's friends' parents.
 
#7 ·
Many years ago, when I was assisting the Maryland Department of Natural Resources on a striped bass survey, I was at a marina checking the fish the charter fishing boats brought in near Solomons. There was a 65-foot Chris Craft Constellation sitting on the hard, where it had been abandoned for 15 years - the owner had passed away and the family did not want the boat. It was absolutely incredible, and the lady that owned the marina said that if I wanted it I could have it at no charge if I got it out of there is six months. Thought I had serious thoughts about trying to restore the boat, at the time it was just a pipe dream. I got some estimates on having the hull glassed and a few other things done, and the cost was outrageous, more than I made in five years. A year later, the marina had a company come in, strip out the engines and hardware and cut the boat up with a chain saw and haul it to a nearby landfill. The lady that owned the marina said it cost her $5,000 to have that done and that took place more than 30 years ago.

Another boat, one that I actually owned for a week, until my wife discovered I had purchased it, was a 75-foot USCG PT Boat. It was a Higgins design, Cyprus planked hull about an inch or more thick, three 12-in-line Packard gasoline engines with pneumatic starting, and guzzled gasoline as if you were dumping it out of a boot. It had 3 staterooms, huge main salon, library, den, wheel house, huge sun deck, and it still had one of the original torpedo launching tubes on the port side. The interior was immaculate, it had oil fired, hotwater baseboard heat, central AC, huge galley and you could walk around in the spotless engine room. I purchased it in 1966 for $10,000, of which I traded the owner a 30-foot wooden cabin cruiser I owned for $5,000 of the purchase price. Balance of $5,000 was financed by the owner because the bank would not finance a WWII vintage boat under any circumstances. The owner was gracious enough to allow me to return the Cho Cho San to him when my wife threatened to divorce me, and at the time she was 5 months pregnant with our son.

As much as I loved those old, wooden boats, in reality, they are not practical to own.

Good luck on your search,

Gary :cool:
 
#8 ·
Another boat, one that I actually owned for a week, until my wife discovered I had purchased it, was a 75-foot USCG PT Boat. It was a Higgins design, Cyprus planked hull about an inch or more thick, three 12-in-line Packard gasoline engines with pneumatic starting, and guzzled gasoline as if you were dumping it out of a boot. It had 3 staterooms, huge main salon, library, den, wheel house, huge sun deck, and it still had one of the original torpedo launching tubes on the port side. The interior was immaculate, it had oil fired, hotwater baseboard heat, central AC, huge galley and you could walk around in the spotless engine room. I purchased it in 1966 for $10,000, of which I traded the owner a 30-foot wooden cabin cruiser I owned for $5,000 of the purchase price. Balance of $5,000 was financed by the owner because the bank would not finance a WWII vintage boat under any circumstances. The owner was gracious enough to allow me to return the Cho Cho San to him when my wife threatened to divorce me, and at the time she was 5 months pregnant with our son.

As much as I loved those old, wooden boats, in reality, they are not practical to own.

Good luck on your search,

Gary :cool:
Great story, Gary. I wonder where that boat is now....
 
#10 ·
Wow for a sail boat forum you guys sure do know a lot about old wood power boats. All of it bad :( . None of the boats are falling apart I should say.
The 51' Chris Craft constellation is in the best shape it just needs cosmetic stuff. Like a good cleaning. It does need a bottom job though. What do those run? The owner sand blasted the bottom of the boat and applied Smith's penetrating epoxy to the bare wood that's supposed to be good yea? The he painted it with some sort of Smith's barrier coat.
 
#14 · (Edited)
The he painted it with some sort of Smith's barrier coat.
Was the boat refastened before this was done to the hull, or was it done to cover a multitude of problems? I wonder what he used in the seams? If they weren't properly addressed, I'd bet you dollars to donuts your "51' Chris Craft constellation is in the best shape", has some pretty serious worm damage. Nothing you can see while she's in the water, but very very expensive to fix and one of the most common ways that old woodies sink. I'd be buying myself a nice ice pick if I was considering any old wooden boat to buy.
 
#11 ·
Dneumansky, I don't know anything about wooden boats other than I would not want to own one. Too much work for me, but there's someone in my marina who's restoring one, so who knows - you might love the projects! I do know I spent almost two years trying to figure out the liveaboard system in the Alameda/Oakland area and I have a nice 38' sloop that is sailed/raced often, so she's no slouch; yet it still took a lot of pounding the pavement and talking to the marina offices to finally get established. If you don't know much about boats, perhaps you can start talking to the locals. Talk to the boat yards. Talk to the marine surveyors and brokers. People love to talk about boats around here. Then, find out what is likely your best course of action given the choices you seem to have available. It's really hard to say whether a generic boat is a going to be good or not. That size range in a power boat would be a LOT of space for one adult and a young'un every couple of weeks. So from that perspective, it would be super spacious. The bigger issue is their overall condition,w which is not possible to assess with the info you've given us. If you like, post the ads or post some info based on what you saw during a look over. How does it smell, is the bilge dry, is there mold, what is the condition of the bottom, when was the last haulout, is there a functioning fridge and water system, how well does the AC power function, are there GFPs on the outlets, does it list, etc. Then, we might be able to give you more specific advice.

Welcome to SN! Hope that was gentle enough :)
 
#12 ·
Wow for a sail boat forum you guys sure do know a lot about old wood power boats. All of it bad :( . None of the boats are falling apart I should say.
The 51' Chris Craft constellation is in the best shape it just needs cosmetic stuff. Like a good cleaning. It does need a bottom job though. What do those run? The owner sand blasted the bottom of the boat and applied Smith's penetrating epoxy to the bare wood that's supposed to be good yea? The he painted it with some sort of Smith's barrier coat.
 
#16 ·
Wow for a sail boat forum you guys sure do know a lot about old wood power boats. All of it bad :(
You're not under the impression that our entire boating lives have been spent here, are you? Mine started before there was an internet. :) It's common for folks to push back when they aren't getting the answers they wanted, making it appear they weren't really asking.

None of the boats are falling apart I should say.
How do you know that? Visually or upon knowledgeable survey? Anyone around boats for any length of time has seen serious money pits that looked fine visually.

It does need a bottom job though. What do those run?
It's good that you're asking, but clearly you're not familiar with basic maintenance of an old wooden boat. I love to see folks live aboard and would not try to talk you out of it. I would encourage you to do more research before you take on a wooden hull.

The owner sand blasted the bottom of the boat and applied Smith's penetrating epoxy to the bare wood that's supposed to be good yea? The he painted it with some sort of Smith's barrier coat.
Unlike most fiberglass hulls, wooden boats rarely just need a coat of epoxy. Some boards typically need to be replaced, planking resecured, seems resealed, then it's painted. The variability in cost is extraordinary. Just applying penetrant and a barrier coat is what you do when you're trying to sell it.
 
#15 · (Edited)
One of the issues I see is the size of the boats you are considering. I have been looking for the past two years at what kind of sailboat I would like to buy as a retirement boat. I've been looking at sailboats in the 28 to 38 foot range.

Everything that happens to a boat in a marina or boatyard is charged based on the length. I have called marinas and repair yards all over the country to get an idea of what things are going to cost. I would encourage you to do the same. Ask about the price of a slip per foot, ask about hauling out to set on the hard for maintenance, and ask for the cost of just painting a fiberglass boat. Then multiply their per foot cost times the length of some of the boats you are considering.

When you think about buying, a 45 foot boat doesn't seem that much more expensive than a 35 foot boat. But when you consider slip fees per foot, that extra 10 feet sounds different.
 
#17 ·
Thanks all cor your responses and the one link to the boat.
I have decided to stay away from wooden boats. The only trouble is that the fiberglass boats are newer and cost a lot more....i mean A lot more like 135k vs 30k.....
I also wanted to say that I've read a ton of books on power boat handling and living aboard so I don't feel like I'm totally ignorant going into this.
Also I would insist on a marine survey before I'd buy any boat.
One last thing since this is a sailboat forum and I'm looking for a power boat does anyone know of a powerboat forum like this.
Live a board stuff is live aboard stuff so I hope I'm welcome here for that.
Daniel Neumansky
 
#18 ·
Here's pictures of the 53' Chris Craft constellation that is being offered for 30k. It needs to be hauled out and a new bottom job done. This boat has been converted to hydraulic steering. It also has autopilot. It's got two head's with vacuflush toilets. The inside of the boat needs a good cleaning that's for sure.
 

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#20 ·
I'm new here, but not new to old wood boats. I'll agree with the previous posters. Unless you know EXACTLY what you are getting into, how to fix it, and have the skills or funds to do it, RUN. The good wood boat guys around here charge about $120/hour. There are cheaper guys, and the good guys fix lots of their work.

Good luck with your hunt!
 
#21 ·
Gotta love the planking on the port side. Indication of major problem. Looks kinda like a similar vessel in the slings at Canoe Cove a few years ago. Chine collapsed and that was the first indication she was rotten . Another at stones Marina in Nanaimo. Can't give them away.
 
#24 ·
I think it's very interesting that the only people who can afford these cheap old classic boats these days are the very rich. I've seen everything from ex-presidential yachts to the most lovely classics once owned by the rich and famous for sale, over and over again as those who love them, but can't afford them, finally give up and hope someone else can take over and save the boat. Sadly, each time these boats come on the market, they are in worse shape.
I felt like I'd lost a friend when the "Virginia Reel" was finally cut up for scrap after being bought and sold this way for quite a long time. Imagine; a sailing boat in the configuration of a sport fishing boat, cockpit and all, designed by Phillip Rhodes!
 
#27 ·
I think it's very interesting that the only people who can afford these cheap old classic boats these days are the very rich. I've seen everything from ex-presidential yachts to the most lovely classics once owned by the rich and famous for sale, over and over.

I felt like I'd lost a friend when the "Virginia Reel" was finally cut up for scrap after being bought and sold this way for quite a long time. Imagine; a sailing boat in the configuration of a sport fishing boat, cockpit and all, designed by Phillip Rhodes!
I Googled "Virginia Reel" and found one of the old ads for one of her times being put up for sale. It sounded like an April Fool's joke, with the list of everything that was wrong with her. When speaking of the work needed on the steel hull it said, "r-plating needed on the bow, the stern, and along the keel, the length of the boat". What does that leave? That's pretty much the description of an entire Hall. It also had the pilot house, cabin top and the entire interior gutted. He also said that it came with a wooden mast and boom but suggested that they both should be replaced. Her twin diesels (expensive gas guzzler) were out and needed work, and had not ever been started by this owner.

He was pretty much intending to rebuild everything.

http://www.lifeisaroad.com/boat.html
 
#26 ·
Here's a boat that was posted earlier but I can't seem to get a hold of the owner. H ine doesn't respond to emails. And I've left him a message. The price on this boat is certainly attractive. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/6189458629.html

Here's the 58' Stephenson flush deck that the owner now wants 115k for....
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/6192092895.html

Here is a wood grand banks Alaskan 49' that seems to me to be in pretty good shape (at least from the pictures). https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/6188740597.html

Here is a modern 50' fiberglass cruiser......for $139k yikes.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Marchi-50-3051171/Stockton/CmA/United-States#.WVnaY3NlDJA

Now are you guys saying that it'll be cheaper to buy the modern boat in the long run?
The Connie is only selling for 30k so there a 100k difference between it and a newer boat.
Daniel
 
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