SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Which Laptops Has Survived Life Onboard?

23K views 88 replies 41 participants last post by  hellosailor 
#1 ·
I need a new laptop.

Qs:

Which models have proven themselves onboard liveaborads and diehard cruising enviros?

Are Panasonic's Toughbooks worth the price?

Any Apple laptops making it on the high seas?

Thanks
 
#2 ·
Panasonics

I've not used one, but have heard good things about the Tough Books. There are typically some older ones on eBay. You could run Linux and get a lot of use out of an older one. You'd have to check the programs and interfaces you'd want to use. Ham/SSB should not be a problem.

You've chosen your name well Mr. Danneskjold. :eek:)

TrT
 
#4 ·
I've got a Toshiba Satellite that has worked well for the past year. It has the 17" wide screen, so it's my movie theater as well.

Guess I don't have to ask, "Who is John Galt?", eh?
 
#6 ·
I use an older Powerbook aboard quite a bit... and am thinking of getting a MacBook to use on board, so I can run both Windows-based programs as well as my Mac-based software. Fortunately, I may be able to avoid doing this as Garmin is coming out with Mac support for most of their stuff fairly soon. I also have an old (PII-266) Toshiba notebook on-board that I mainly use to program my Garmin GPS. :D

Whether you want/need a Toughbook depends mainly on how you will be using the laptop. I use my PB in the cabin, where it is very well protected from salt spray and such... if you want to be able to use the computer as a chartplotter, and view the screen in daylight out in the cockpit, then getting a ToughBook is generally worth the extra money, as they usually have daylight readable transreflective displays, and some are water/dust proofed. Be aware that some of the ToughBooks aren't really ruggedized and die just as easily as any other notebook. :D
 
#7 ·
The ToughBook 19 and 30 will provide you the most protection if the laptop will be out of the cabin. Protection in the form of corrosion and oxidation resistance of the motherboard. Sea air is brutal on PC components, especially laptops (somebody open theirs up to view this oxidation on the copper components if you're feeling adventurous).

These 2 models are really the only 2 that have a moisture barrier, sort of like a sealed gasket. But, even that isn't totally waterproof. The 30 has much better daylight "readability". Both are GPS capable. Both have good shockability. I've dropped both from waist height and both kept on tickin'. AND It WILL be forgotten to be put away and will slide off your nav table despite it's non-skid coating--absolutely count on that.

Find some to play with in your area to see for yourself the difference. Have a knowlegeable salesperson open one up along with any other brand to see the differences in the inside. That is why they are more expensive.


Expect to pay $3,500.00 on up and worth every penny.
 
#8 ·
I think paying for a toughbook that will NOT be used in the cockpit for navigation is a waste of money personally. I had two Toshibas while out cruising. One died when I left it unsecured while crossing the gulf stream...duh. The other gave up when the screen went bad after 3 years of use. Presently using an HP with 19" screen (love it!)...the total price for all three was about $1000 less than a single Toughbook 30 and if I had bought one 6 years ago and it still was working, it would be an antique today. I do have a backup USB hard drive so I don't lose any important stuff in a crash. But you can get a heck of a nice laptop these days for well under $1k and if you get 3 years out of it on board...then you probably are lusting for something new anyway!!
Toughbooks are great if you really need the rugged/waterproof/daylight capable screen....but if not, get a "throwaway" and back it up and you'll be ahead of the game financially and feature wise.
 
#64 ·
I think, instead of getting a bunch of laptops, getting a small micro-desktop and a decent transreflective IPX7 LCD monitor might make more sense for most people. If I can find a good source for a transreflective LCD, I might start making custom packages for sailors I know.
This is another thread I have read with interest. I have been wondering how my laptop will fare onboard and what precautions I can take to insure it continues to function well (other than not keeping 17 windows open while posting on forums).

And again I find a wealth of information ... thanks to all and especially camaraderie and sailingdog ... I find your insight extremely helpful.

Just a note ... I also find it somewhat incongruous ... that I ended up purchasing my Cal 28 for a little more than twice what I paid for my laptop (HP Pavilion dv3510nr) ... but then I know that my priorities have changed rather drastically of late ... as I understand that I will be spending many more dollars (as well as time and energy) ... enjoying my dream.
 
#9 ·
When someone treats a laptop like a book...it breaks. Especially because the cases and hinges are way more delicate than they should be and the little knocks add up and wind up cracking the cases two years down the line, and then once the cracks start everything seems to go.

Personally I try to treat my laptop like a sheet of glass, and even then the wear catches up. If I was doing it again for the long term I'd give serious thought to the Toughbooks that are "armored" (they aren't all) because gel-mounted hard drives and rubber corner bumpers CAN help protect it. It might be cheaper to buy a cheaper laptop and just replace it twice as often, but that also depend on how many hours (days?) you'll need to spend reinstalling software and user preferences. To me, THAT'S the real price of replacing a laptop, the time it will take to prep the new one.

A lot of vendors (from Dell, who I call Dell Hell, to Lenovo, who bought out IBM) will offer you a 4-year total "bump drop and splash" warranty on a laptop and that's also a good way to invest in protection. From the maker, these extended warranties are often only $300 or so to extend the basic warranty out to 4 years of total protection, although many stores will try to sell you a third-party warranty that does less for a higher price. (They're trying to make profits--by cheating the customer.)

If your laptop is not mission critical, and you won't mind taking three days off to reload software and set it up again...by all means, cheap and and replace it every 18 months instead.

And meanwhile, treating it like glass instead of luggage, helps them all.
 
#10 ·
I came across a neat thread on another forum recently on the topic of miniature pcs on board and the consensus seemed to be that you could put one together, including monitor for less than 1000 us dollars that will outperform a laptop, and can be securely mounted in dry places. They also run on 12v. I'm not sure if it is appropriate to post links to other sailing forums though, or if anyone is interested!

http://www.logicsupply.com/product_info.php/products_id/401

This is the general idea though.
 
#12 ·
Yes, there are quite a few MicroITX based machines that would be small enough and energy efficient enough for use on a boat. The problem is that they require a screen...and the LCD screens that are suitable for use on a boat are fairly expensive...and the ones that are not suitable for use on a boat have issues with their design that make them more difficult to accommodate.. A laptop is convenient because it has all of the components in a nice tidy package.
 
#15 ·
Most of the less expensive, non-marine use LCDs are not daylight readable, require 120 VAC power as they have a transformer built-in, and are not dust and water resistant to any degree.

If they are going to be used exclusively in the cabin and can be mounted in such a way that they are unlikely to get wet and well shield from sunlight, then they may be usable.... but you would still need an inverter to run most of them, and that introduces a lot of electrical losses a DC-based one would not have.
 
#17 ·
One advantage that most laptops have over the "mini-PC" variants is their built-in battery backup. When the DC power on a boat starts to get low, the chance of you losing data and damaging files on the hard drive go way up. With a laptop or notebook computer, the battery allows you a buffer between when the boat's DC supply is too low to support the computer and when you will start to lose files, and gives you a chance to gracefully shut down the OS.
 
#18 ·
hellosailor said:
If your laptop is not mission critical, and you won't mind taking three days off to reload software and set it up again...by all means, cheap and and replace it every 18 months instead.

And meanwhile, treating it like glass instead of luggage, helps them all.
Perhaps the best compromise are cheap, basic laptops kept in big baggies with dessicants. Buy three or four of the same model (this gives three or four backup power cubes, as well, which in my experience go bad faster than the laptops themselves). Use "ghosting" or "imaging" software to duplicate the set-up on all three or four before you go.

Then use a USB stick or other portable backup device to record and store data points like GPS entries, routing, waypoints, pictures, repair logs, and e-mails. The amount of raw data generated by nav programs, e-mail without attachments, PDFs of pilots and simple word processor documents is relatively tiny compared to high-res pictures or video or audio files, which can get huge. (I can store a 200-page graphics-heavy InDesign publication on a 1 GB MP3 player, for instance, and still have room for 50 songs).

This way, you simply keep a "running fix" of your data alone: the programs and all your custom tweaking of the OS, partitions, etc. is identical from laptop to laptop. If one goes south, you simply copy over from the USB stick. What if the laptop goes over the side WITH the USB stick? Simple: Copy the entire USB stick to a *second* USB stick. If you are in port with shore power, update all the laptops at once: 15 minutes (You can check for other problems, like dying CMOS batteries or buggered displays at this point, as well). That second USB stick is what? $20 these days? Not a huge consideration.

Four compact laptops take up the space of a 6 inch binder. I have two 6 inch binders just holding my shop manuals and gear instructions and wiring diagrams! So it seems to me that instead of a black box and a $3000 Raymarine 10 inch display, I can get four $500 laptops *that I can remove easily from the boat* and get redundancy and a better screen. Speaking of which, while I have a pilothouse and abundant shelter, I suppose you could have a waterproof LCD display on deck or on an armature rotating into the companionway, and then just have an IR mouse to switch displays, keeping the laptop "brain" stowed out of the wet.

Lastly, you could make one of the laptops a Powerbook, and have the others "ghosted" cheapies for the nav station.

Just my thoughts. I know enough about computing to resent the proprietary displays of the marine chartplotter manufacturers. I have no doubt that on a wet, driving race boat, they are the best choice, but I prefer the redundancy, large display and flexibility of multiple laptops of modest power.
 
#19 ·
Valiente-

I think you mean ToughBook, not PowerBook. PowerBooks can't be Ghosted as they don't run Windows in general.
 
#20 ·
sailingdog said:
Valiente-

I think you mean ToughBook, not PowerBook. PowerBooks can't be Ghosted as they don't run Windows in general.
You're right. I have a five year old crew who doesn't respect the Captain's privilege of sleeping beyond seven bells in the Sunday morning watch. This affects my verbal navigation.

I do admit to reading the manual to my new Xantrex RS 2000 inverter just prior to posting. I've got power on the brain.
 
#21 ·
I appreciate all the replies

(I'd love that M30 toughbook -- just to own an electronic something that didn't need to by pampered 24/7.)

Ragnar
 
#23 ·
Has anyone ever tried opening a lap top and spraying it with "Corrosion Block" or CRC "Corrosion Inhibitor? I'm thinking of trying it with a garage sale old laptop. Any thoughts?
Not from personal experience, but from a couple who have been cruising since 1997, they have found the life of all of the lap tops they have purchased, (all the common brands, but I'm not sure about "Toughbook") regardless of price, is 18 months to 2 years. They keep a spare one, an external drive for backup, and just buy a new one on this schedule.
 
#24 ·
The two laptops I use onboard my boat are a 12" Mac PowerBook, and an ancient Toshiba Tecra 8000, which is at least eight years old. Most of the applications you use on a boat aren't really all that high powered... word processing, e-mail, web surfing, are all easily handled by even fairly old hardware. Some of the newer navigation software requires a bit more muscle.

I've seen a few attempts at corrosion proofing normal laptops, but the heat inside them generally seems to cause some problems for any type of spray-on corrosion inhibitor. These machines run pretty hot inside.

Ideally, I'd like to get a ruggedized one, but can't justify spending that kind of money, when I can get away with this older hardware for now.
 
#25 ·
Chet, computers these days run above microwave frequencies internally. And at that range, every part of the circuit board, even the traces themselves, are active components. So you will be changing (de-tuning) the circuit board and you stand better than a 50-50 chance of making the computer unstable.

And that's not counting the overheating it can cause.

Might work, might not, but anyone in the business of making those computers will tell you they don't offer them coated--because it would be a major redesign job to try making them work reliably afterwards.

I know folks who find cell phones, CD players, MP3 players, laptops, never last them more than a year or two. And others who get 5++ years from the same devices. Sometimes, the only difference is in how you use and care for them. Treat a laptop like a book, and yes, it will break before two years are up.
 
#26 ·
I've had my Toshiba Tecra 8000 since it was brand new, and it is a PII 266 CPU-based machine...to give you an idea of its age. The only real problem it has, even after two years aboard boats, and another seven plus of being kicked around the country is that the battery is basically kaput. It isn't the fastest machine out there, and I only use it for a rather limited set of programs...but it gets the job done and would do 99% of anything I need a computer to do. Main reason I don't use it for more is I prefer working on my PowerBook... much more elegant OS....better software/hardware integration, better programs for most things, etc.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top