Christmas Lights and Decor

[HoffaLives]

the most troubling part is that there i an inordinate focus on me, instead of the issues i've raised. while more than one person has taken exception to what i've said and how i've said it, no one has replied directly to the issues, which is the only important part of the discussion. i'm just a conduit for ideas and don't matter one whit. please, ignore the character flaws you perceive and focus on the ideas.

i've often thought of the what would jesus do - we spend 300 billion on ourselves- the richest cultures in the world - while the rest of the world groans under poverty and disease and ignorance. would jesus just look at the lights and think how pretty they are? would they warm his heart? or would they be symbols of greed, rapaciousness, selfishness and the abandonment of god's children?

buying 20 bucks worth of lights isn't the issue; it's the average $800.00/soul that is spent on ourselves. but the lights have become symbolic of the whole package, along with bows, snowmen, tinsel, trees, etc.

people have accused me of being cynical, but how many have checked at the homeless shelters, food banks and soup kitchens? they will tell you they get all kinds of offers of help and money and donations at this time of year, but that by a month or so, all those people wishing to do good have disappeared and the struggle for donations and help returns.

[danjarch]

Hoffa, I'll but this delicately. Start your own f@cking thread. There is a reason nobodies taking your bait. They don't want to be a Grinch. The original post wasn't on the meaning or the celebration of Christmas. It was meant to be a fun discussion on decorating. You don't decorate, or so you've claimed. Therefor you don't really have anything to add to this discussion. If you want to talk about the commercialization of the America's holidays, then by all means start a thread about it. In the mean time let those who have or plan to decorate they're boats, talk about with each other.

[ReverendMike]

Hoffa
It's become about you because you made it about you. The OP was thinking of the cost effectiveness of solar powered decorations, and you turn it into a diatribe on commercialism. Don't get me wrong, I think you've diagnosed the 'christmas disease' with fair accuracy, but you hijacked the thread and the resulting focus on you is most likely because of that more than anything.

You're also correct about the need for community involvement year-round, not just at this time of year. So how's that work for you as you sail from port to port? WWJD? Sail away and say 'screw these people, they're effed!'? (BTW as a volunteer fireman, my ability to commit to the food bank is difficult, but I get in there when I can....)

[Shack]

Originally Posted by HoffaLives

BTW, north americans spent just under 300 billion in xmas (2002 us and canadian govt stats). that's a lot of money, ... it's up to each of us to decide if that's a tradition worth carrying on

Yes Hoffa, thats alot of cash, but one can continue the tradition of Christmas without spending huge amounts of $$$$. I feel that those who blow too much dough on this season do so in other aspects of their lives, too.

It ain't the season - its the spender.

"How could it be so? It came without ribbons!It came without tags!
And he puzzled and puzzled...till his puzzler was sore.

Then the Grinch thought of something...he hadn't before.
Maybe Christmas--...he thought--doesn't come from a store.
Maybe Christmas...perhaps...means a little bit more."


Seasons Greetings my friend!

[Raggbagger]

Originally Posted by HoffaLives

there is no relationship between men dying, placed in harm's way by the proven lies of a corrupt administration and a thousands-of-years-old tradition the roots of which aren't even american. and i think you do these men a great disservice when you suggest that they are dying for the right of americans to spend money on the materialistic binge that this season has become.

are there good feelings at xmas? sure. but you have to examine it deeper, look at the consequences, ramifications, and what it means on a greater context, rather then just liking the pretty lights.

the notion that this what we are so celebrate it, is too simple, and one of the reasons 'the season' has so thoroughly been co-opted by commercial interests. people don't question what and why they are doing.

are the western values worth preserving and even defending? absolutely - the right to think and question, to behave according to one's values, pursue truth and meaning as one defines them, critique those in power, seek equality for all, and on and on. there might even have been important values in christmas once upon a time, but today...

given the points i made about economics, values and the environment, the material traditions of this season have become diametric to the values it supposedly espouses.

besides, if those values are important, we should be living them every day, not just duringthe winter solstice. that's what i try to do anyway, and so i don't get all the hoopla about the season, much less the material orgy. i do practice love to all that i meet, and unfortunately i don't find a lot of reciprocity out there. folks are too stressed i guess from all the money they spend and the debt they racked up last xmas.

anyway, this is supposed to be a sailing thread so let's see...jesus was a sailor?

Mathew 13:2.....he went into a ship , and sat ....
Mark 5: 36 ...as he was in the ship. And there were also with him other little ships. 37 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. 38 And he was in the hinder part of the ship,asleep .....41 .....what manner of man is this that even the wind and seas obey him?
Luke 5:2 And saw two ships standing by the lake....3and entered into one of the ships, which was Simon's and prayed him that he would thrust out a little from the land. Ande he sat down and taught the people out of the ship.


not only was Jesus a sailor but he was into beach BBQs too


John 21:9 As soon then as they were come to land , they saw a fire of coals there , and fish laid thereon , and bread 10 Jesus saith unto them Bring of the fish which ye have caught


Merry Christmas Hoffa Yes Jesus is the ultimate sailor Merry Christmas

[HoffaLives]

Originally Posted by ReverendMike

Hoffa
It's become about you because you made it about you.

no one's taking anything away from others continuing to talk about lights. talk away. if you don't approve of a Hoffa post, don't read it and skip to the next.

however someone did raise the issue of xmas decorating as if there was no greater significance to xmas decorating than, well, decorating. i brought up the issue that xmas decorating is more than decorating. that in the west, it has become something of much great social, economic, environmental, and political significance. it's like starting a thread about god as if god doesn't mean anything more than a piece of wood, or a book, or a statue. just because it doesn't occur to some that there is a greater significance in what they are talking about, doesn't mean anyone else must stay on such a limited course. there is tremendous meaning to what xmas has become, beyond what we learned in a charles shultz cartoon.

very little of my posts have been about me; i try to present other ways of examining things. it is people who seem bothered by this who resort to angry responses directed at me. i have no interest in that; it is hardly attention i desire. but for some strange reason, no one has really responded to the points i've raised.

as if a thread dealing with decorating for xmas has no room to discuss the meaning of xmas. there's been so much attention directed at me, we haven't even evolved to the place of what can be done differently. now that would be real xmas decorating!

[xort]

Hoff..."laughing at the lemmings still caught in the money/buying/consumerist echo of an ancient pagan ritual."

That's how you initially responded.
You catch more bees with honey, if you know what I mean.
Subtle as a fart in church.
Uhh, church is where people go to pray and all that. It's kind of quiet at times. Never mind.

[HoffaLives]

Originally Posted by xort

Hoff..."laughing at the lemmings still caught in the money/buying/consumerist echo of an ancient pagan ritual."

That's how you initially responded.
You catch more bees with honey, if you know what I mean.
Subtle as a fart in church.
Uhh, church is where people go to pray and all that. It's kind of quiet at times. Never mind.

i prefer "you catch more lawyers with money" but point taken. mea culpa, eve tho that was like 40 posts ago.

the irony is people are angry enough to swear at me to affirm their right to keep the discussion on decorations, thereby silencing talk about the deeper issue it raises. there's the problem with xmas right there, in a nutshell. i'm not blaming anyone, it's our culture, but this just shows how entrenched it is.

anyway, it's probably time i got outta here, and so to everyone's relief, back to the regular scheduled programming.

lights, please

[camaraderie]

Hoffa...you said "this is supposed to be a sailing thread so let's see...jesus was a sailor?"

"And jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said all men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone..."

Leonard Cohen ...Suzanne

[poopdeckpappy]

Well, we are entering the SD parade, the theme is "A priate Christmas."

I got all kinds of light s to install this weekend, we have a projector that will protect flames onto the mainsail and a smoke machine that will pump out enough fog to set off all the horns.

The whole famn damily is going to be dress as priates, as we sing and freeze our a$$es off.


Should be a kick in the butt