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Liveaboard under attack by marina

23K views 74 replies 40 participants last post by  weoftheboatpeople 
#1 · (Edited)
Iv'e lived on my sailboat for 3.5 years straight this time and seen this marina change ownersship three years ago. New rules/ regs.
Now with new management I recieved a letter saying the marina no longer allows monthley rent payments and only quarterley, semi-annually or yearley.

This letter was received on 3-24-08 enclosed is a bill for the next three months with a due date of 4-1-08. One weeks notice to pay three months in advance ( its for slip rent and liveaboard fee) $774.00.

Ive been here for 10 years and what gives these people the right to jack me around like this.

I need to know what my options are. Im tired of being a doormat.

N 37 16'02".18 W 76 25'21"70
 
#27 ·
Dunlookn, other then your rant against the members here, I fail to see that your post helps the original poster. What suggestions do you have to offer. My dock fees went up $10 a foot. Do you feel my pain that diesel is $4.50 a gallon at my marina. I am told that it will go up again before the season starts. A private business have every right to change prices and policies at any time. If you don't like it than do business some place else. If you can help the boater than do it. But don't start name calling. This guy had good deal for for a lot of years and still does. Compassion, works on both sides of the street. Please practice what you preach!
 
#28 ·
I guess the fellow feels frustrated with the way the marina informed him on such a quick notice, as for that I'm on his side. I can't help but wonder if he was just looking for some info on his rights, with respect to renting where he is. I think he was reaching out for help, from people he thought would have some constructive info, boy was he wrong.
 
#29 ·
I am sure he signed some form of contract. My advise would be to read it. Then ask a question, that can be answered.
 
#33 ·
Thanks for all the responces.

Maybe this is the wrong place to post such a question. Nevertheless, a one week notice to pay three months of rent is a bit unfair (in my opinion).

Just a month ago new contracts were sent out. The same contracts we have been getting for three years. With the option to pay monthly listed. It was time for renewal.

Then three weeks later this new letter arrived March 24, with a bill due April 1st. No more monthlies only quarterlies, semi-annually or annual.

I filled out the new contract and mailed next months rent check to them postmarked the 20th, the same time there letter was in the mail. Im not sure if they will accept it.

Going by in the morning, have a UPS package to pick up. See what happens.

73's
 
#37 ·
The only reason for pre-payment on a quarterly basis is if there is:

a. A Financial reward to the person who does this. Pay 3 months get X discount, 6 another discount etc...Prepaying 3 months is just another sham to earn more interest up front on money not yet theirs (the marina)
b. A person volunteers to pay because they will be out on business, more convenient, or intend on sailing for x amount of days beyond what they can determine of paying in person.

With the ability of direct deposit etc...

Sorry..

This is just another method to extort money. Because so many people are foreclosing on houses does that give mortgage companies a reason to charge quarterly? NO.... Because so many auto repos - does that mean your auto loan is based on payments every 3 months ahead... no....

A marina has no actual right to do such... you buy insurance - you can pay monthly, quarterly, yearly - you get discounts for doing so - but nothing prevents you from paying as you go....

Its a sham and I hope it doesn't find its way to the NW...and if not I hope others start a class action lawsuit...
 
#38 ·
Uh, Jody? Hello?

They can set up whatever terms of payment they want subject to existing contracts. The only real argument here is the amount of notification required. The devil in this case is only in the details. The contract can specify weekly payment or payment ten years in advance. The only caveat being the possibility of no actual current contract and that there is an existing tradition of payment otherwise. Which, in no way prevents the issuance of a new contract, with different terms, subject to acceptence or rejection by the other party. Rejection constituting an agreement to discontinue the use of facilities and services.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Uh Hello back.... do you pay quarterly on your house, storage, car etc... most of these marinas are forcing it and for no reason... other than greed... would you give X amount for three months without knowing you will be there three months .... what about your money do you not respect?

Live aboard is a monthly rental agreement no different than renting a house, RV space etc, a marina at a slip where you provide your living accommodations is no different...no where else in the rental market is this practice upheld of charging quarterly dues without some form of discount... a marina is a transient area all regardless...it is also considered renting property...

Think maybe you should think of this in terms of common sense and not the norm legaleeze... because this practice effect you , me , and anyone that that cruises where being forced to pay X amount upfront for a stay that you do not intend and if you do - I doubt you plan your personal expenditures on a quarterly basis but more on a monthly economic scale...These kind of forcings of fincial obligations - after the fact or just even now - trickles to areas where none of us really want to deal with.

We can laugh at the fact that - heck you pay less than I do - but do you ever question why we pay more than what they did? Because we allowed it...supply demand and what the market bears...

uh hello again? :)

I bet you pay monthly ...
 
#42 ·
Yeah, you know, I hear the arguments for and against but I reckon it's true to say that many people live aboard not because of the romance of it but because that's the way they get to fund their dream on a limited amount of income.

Not that I'm trying to cast aspersions on the OP but perhaps he lives on his boat because he has to. And when the rent is suddenly upped to quarterly or worse, perhaps he doesn't have the wherewithal to pay it.

So just because his costs are a fraction of those paid by the more affluent amongst us doesn't mean that it's fair to so radically move the goal-posts that he can't comply. It would, as Artbyjody says, be unheard of for this to happen in the real estate business and if it did there would be a raft of bunny-huggers standing by to take up the cudgels on behalf of the man.

But then again, maybe he is just whining, maybe he is just trying to place "internet" pressure on his landlords.

I know that if I didn't comply with the requirements of my marina owners, they would chuck me out in a heartbeat.

Andre
 
#44 ·
There is a thread dedicated to what you pay for your slip, and what comes with that (elec, water, pool, clubhouse, etc etc.). I forget where that thread is though. Like you say, I thought I had it bad until I saw some other peoples fees...wheeew$$$.
 
#45 ·
I wonder how this entire thread would have evolved if there was no mention of the actual fees the OP is paying. Should that matter unless he was paying $10k/month or some other outrageous fee and the obvious answer would be to move?

Many good points have been raised. In making comparisons one should remember that this marina is providing a service, not a product. In comparing renting or leasing houses, cars... it is important to note that there will most likely be a security deposit, maybe even 1st and last months rent involved as with properties. Cars can be repo'd and leased ones usually require a down payment. In most cases the provider has cash in hand to help insure that should something happen they are not out too much. In the service type industries it is a bit different.

The additional info the OP provided was well covered by SD. Unforunately SD appears to be stuck on the $'s paid for rent and not what I percieve as the point of the original post which was more or less "My marina has changed policy and I don't think it is fair. Does anybody have any suggestions as to what recourse I may have?" It would appear that most agree the OP does not have many options. How it helps to tell someone who does not appear to be a spammer and has only posted a couple of times to STFU is beyond me. Still amazed the guy came back after the welcome he was given. How would each of you reacted with such a greeting when first posting here? Do you want this to be more like SA? :( I do not. I also know if I don't like it here I can leave, got it. Just used to be much more cordial. Cabin fever perhaps?:confused:
 
#46 ·
Any business has a right to sell on whatever terms it wants to. Any purchaser has a right to say "Fine" or "Goodbye". I'm sure the marina in this case will have no problem in filling any empty slips. It would have been nice to give more notice of the change in policy...but they havve no legal requirement to do so. Indeed...they could have said.."No more liveaboards" as many marinas have done.
Sashannel...my advice would be to pay you dock fees on whatever schedule is required and keep your head down as you have no case and squeaky wheels find themselves without a place to live aboard.
 
#47 ·
Sliding scale

I love to read these threads in the morning. It's better than the local paper. We have a sliding scale at our marina. Pay by the month, quarter or annually. The annual payment will save you about 15% over the monthly and there is the peace of mind that comes with being at the top of the renewal list. In water slips are at a serious premium on Lake Norman, north of Charlotte, and that annual fee is great insurance. Besides, I have all year to stache away the fee.

As for our friend's problem, the sudden change sucks. It is thier marina and thier fine print. I'd go to the office, with hat in hand, and sit down and ask to go over said fine print on both the old and new contracts. See if there is not some wiggle room to tie me over for a few months. IMHO, for what it's worth.

Fair winds.
 
#48 ·
I could be wrong, but it seems to be a simple legal issue here. I don't care how much you pay, if the notice was short, if it's a bargain or how much anyone else pays. The bottom line is the contract. If they sent you a contract, you signed it and sent it back with a check and they cashed the check, it is an open and shut case. The contract is valid AND binding. The can sent anything they want after that and it is all toilet paper. They cannot change a contract they have entered into with you and must wait until the contract expires. BUT, placing a lit match in someone's shoe never wins any friends and if you go to the office waving your rights in their face, you may not like the look of the contract following this one. I would simply go to the office with the new notice (provided you haven't pee'd on it) and explain to them that the contract you had already entered into with them stated you could pay monthly. This new policy came with very short notice and has caught you short. Surely their must be a way we can transit from the existing contract to the new policy that's mutually beneficial. I really like it here and wish to continue to be a good customer.
Try that, you'll be surprised at how flexible people can be in a one on one situation. I personally pay $4400 in the spring and $1800 in the fall plus winter electric. Our marina was bought out three years ago as well. Policies changed and although billing broke summer fees into three winter payments and winter fees had to be paid up front, there were some long standing agreements with certain liveaboards and the management worked things out. Nobody usually wants to loose a customer and nobody usually wants to move. Don't take a form letter as a personal affront. They aren't personal, their form.
Good luck with diplomacy. Remember, if you shoot first and ask questions later, who you gonna ask?

Bob C s/v Valkyrie, Irwin Citation 35.5
 
#49 ·
FarCry—

It might help if you actually read my entire last post. The OP doesn't say whether he has a written contract or not. He doesn't mention whether he's ever been late on a payment or not....and if he's forced to liveaboard due to limited finances, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that he's been late on a payment once or twice, is it? The OP doesn't mention if there have been boats abandoned in the marina... which would be a reason for requesting pre-payment from their other clients—but doesn't speak too highly of the marina as a facility.

All the OP has said is that he had short notice. That's all. That doesn't really give enough information to say whether the change in payment arrangements is appropriate or not, whether they violate an existing contract or not... or much else at all.

As others have said... if it really bothers him that much, he should vote with his wallet and move his boat to a different marina. If he can't go to a different marina, then he shouldn't be bitching about it. I'm fairly surprised that this marina didn't jack up the slip fees or charge significant liveaboard fees, which seems to be very commonplace when new management take over existing marinas. Many marinas are eliminating liveaboard status entirely.
 
#50 ·
Defered till July 1st

I spoke with the office manager and she said this wont go into effect till July 1st . They are drafting up a new contract.

Looks like I got another three months. cool

The previous notice was sent to all liveaboards.

By new management I mean: A new General Manager took over the first of the year, 2008.

I have a written contract on file right now, due to renew in May. I did send a new one a few days ago.

Oh well the heat is off for a while.

Thanks for all the insightful comments.
 
#52 ·
Welcome ( better late then never) Do you get out and sail ( presuming its a blow boat your living on)...or do you pretty much have a dock condo?

What boat do you have...there are many others wanting your life style here or some form of it...You could be an inspiration to someone maybe ...

PS: FWIW...This is a great place and good people...as you learned...first time rant posters arnt received to well...wait till post # 3 to start that...;) ...we do get a few spam type posts...There is this one guy Giulietta that is notorious..and we cant keep him out no matter how hard we try...he just keeps photo shopping himself avoiding all attempts of spam blockers....any way welcome aboard...and watch out for guys like him...you will know recognize what im talking about if you hang around long enough...they are out there and they are watching us..

I spoke with the office manager and she said this wont go into effect till July 1st . They are drafting up a new contract.

Looks like I got another three months. cool

The previous notice was sent to all liveaboards.

By new management I mean: A new General Manager took over the first of the year, 2008.

I have a written contract on file right now, due to renew in May. I did send a new one a few days ago.

Oh well the heat is off for a while.

Thanks for all the insightful comments.
 
#51 ·
Mr Dog. I did read your post to the end. Not sure what your point is. I agree with your list of missing facts and possible scenarios involving OP. I considered those and others before responding intially. What is it you wish to discuss now? It appears that all is well for svshanell for now. Have a nice night.
 
#53 ·
About Me

My name is Carl

I liveaboard a 1973 Pearson 26 with two cats, Little Monster and Burley. Its tight sometimes.

Ive race the Pearson for the last 12 years, not so much these last two years. Ive been crewing with a friend.

I go out alot. Almost every weekend. Playing around with some chartplotting software Seaclear 2, AISMon, Chartview, still tring to figure how to coulple NEMA 0183 to the Autohelm. There is an interphase box I need. 075 I believe.

Ive tricked the pearson out with a CQR anchor on a bow fairlead and installed a homemade wind generator ( A 50 Knot wind storm did it in, Melted the windings, but it stayed together.) I have an Air-X on the way

Ive done some deliveries. ICW and Offshore. A Pilot House 60 Schooner and a Bristol 40.

All for Now
 
#58 ·
My name is Carl

I liveaboard a 1973 Pearson 26 with two cats, Little Monster and Burley. Its tight sometimes.

Ive race the Pearson for the last 12 years, not so much these last two years. Ive been crewing with a friend.

I go out alot. Almost every weekend. Playing around with some chartplotting software Seaclear 2, AISMon, Chartview, still tring to figure how to coulple NEMA 0183 to the Autohelm. There is an interphase box I need. 075 I believe.

Ive tricked the pearson out with a CQR anchor on a bow fairlead and installed a homemade wind generator ( A 50 Knot wind storm did it in, Melted the windings, but it stayed together.) I have an Air-X on the way

Ive done some deliveries. ICW and Offshore. A Pilot House 60 Schooner and a Bristol 40.

All for Now
Cats? CATS??!???? Not sure we can allow you to join now, unless they can survive a meeting with my MAN EATER:



HEHE! Welcome aboard anyways...

- CD
 
#56 ·
Hey SR, easy on Giul he means well, some times.......... :rolleyes:
Welcome Carl, some of us did jump the gun a little , self included.
I haven't been a member that long but I have found this site and the membership quite helpful and educational, and some times ya have to tread lightly on some subjects as you have found out.
all said and done welcome aboard.
 
#59 ·
Wild Magic

The 1973 Pearson indeed has a head with an intake, holding tank & pumpout.

I'm very much single, about 4 years from retirement and should have SS & PERS to keep me going. I also hope to ply my trade(surveyor), working as a pick-up consultant or GPS specialist, as I sail around. The boat's big enough for "some", equipment . . . if I choose. I also worked as a naturalist many years ago and my degree is in natural resources . . . naturally. I'm also a veteran, so I have some help their too(medical), which can follow me.

I expect to go the route of my past-brother who ceremoniously, pitched virtually all his wordly goods to live about 20+ years in a 16' scampy trailer . . . must be something about family blood.

In any case I expect to have very little when/if I make the actual jump to liveaboard-cruising. I have no interest in parking my butt in a marina.

My main concerns is how to provision myself and determining how long I can stay at anchor without venturing on the hard tack. I tend to be a loner, I like solitude and spend a lot of time contemplating. I hope liveaboard cruising agrees with me.
 
#64 ·
My main concerns is how to provision myself and determining how long I can stay at anchor without venturing on the hard tack.
You can be independent energy wise with the right setup and you can haul fuel and water to the boat. Your limit at anchor will be the size of the holding tank and availability of pump out stations. In the Annapolis area, the city provides a portable pump out service for $5.00 a real sweet deal. Unfortunately, I am not aware of this service elsewhere.

You will probably have to visit a pump out station at least weekly.
 
#61 ·
The new payment schedule was sent to everyone at this marina. I didnt know that at the beginning of this thread.

This Pearson has a head with a y-valve modification with a flexable holding tank. I don't use it. Needs a real black water holding tank upgrade. There is room for one under the v-berth.

I need 5 more points to post a pic. I have a nice one of my cat, but will have to wait to post.
 
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