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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard
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  #141  
Old 06-13-2009
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SEMIJim will become famous soon enough SEMIJim will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingmum View Post
If you think it's worth it,
spend the money on the survey. Never take one these puppies without a survey unless you've got the wallet and/or the stomach for the consequences.
Good luck.
This bears repeating. A survey just isn't all that expensive, comparatively speaking. There was a guy posted here last season or the season before, IIRC, who'd paid something like a couple thousand for a boat, no survey. It was only a couple thou, right? Ended-up costing him another $10k, or something like that, to fix her.

Who would put $10k into a boat for which they paid $2k? Somebody who had the boat and couldn't bear the thought of simply discarding a boat that could be made good? (See my previous post on the subject.)

Jim
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  #142  
Old 06-13-2009
sv Mary T Pearson P35
 
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Smile Boat free ~ 'closing costs' are Not. ADVICE warning for free and not free boats.

Never take one these puppies without a survey unless you've got the wallet and/or the stomach for the consequences.

Thanks for bringing this up. The above should have been in the beginning and at the end and probably in the middle. Yes, if you think the boat is sailable after your preliminary inspection (shop around for surveyor referrals and prices before you do anything, so when you do find a good potential boat, you're ready to move), and believe the vessel is potentially worthy, have a professional expert check it out. Even if it is sailable, there may be hidden and costly problems you can't deal with.. if there aren't problems, a surveyor will be able to tell you what items you should plan to replace and when. If the surveyor's report gives you a go, you'll have a much better understanding of the vessel.
So yes, the boat may be free, but welcome to your watery and windy love affair - WWLA - and yes, you better love it !
The costs begin with the survey, the registration and the insurance. But you're in love with a dream, right ?
PS... If you're just starting out !~! !~ start with a Sunfish or a Laser or American 17~ you don't need more than an experienced sailor friend for that inspection, no motor = no registration, and your homeowner's will include the boat. Oh, and start on a bay or a lake, so you won't be swept out to sea ! and please wear the PFD. It's tough treading water unconscious or for hours if your lookouts decide to go for a drink. Better to be dorky and alive, than cool and dead. Anyway, there are some cool kayaking PFDs, give you great range of motion and after a while, you'll forget you have it on. (until the boom knocks you silly or you're exhausted from trying to right the sucker from a capsize, you'll remember you've got it on and be grateful and much, much more relaxed which will conserve energy).
Oh, and have FUN... it really is FUN !
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  #143  
Old 06-13-2009
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Thank you Sailingmum;

That was what i was looking for, I had no illusions that a free boat would come ready to sail but the thought of taking a boat and restoring it to sailing glory appealed to me. Buying something that is in pristine condition isn't a bad thing but a boat like that anyone could buy and start sailing. An abandon boat is such a sad thought that getting one and rebuilding it back to seaworthy status, there would just be more pride in that. I hope that made sense.

As for me, well since abandon or free boats is a foreign concept around here and I don't have time to spend weeks scouring marinas for a boat to rebuild. I have seen some derelict wrecks around here but the owners are looking for premium cash. Boating in Canada, well central Ontario anyway seems to be taken up by people that love it as the window for sailing is so small.

Good luck to the OP, I hope I am never in her shoes trying to keep a home afloat with kids on board.
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  #144  
Old 06-14-2009
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I only read the first three pages ...and the last three.
Why all the how great the boat is ?

It seems Shes asking for something safe for her family to live on .
I grew up with a very poor family ...just above dirt !

Something with a safe hull,moter to get them around the harbor ..Fuel ,water,pump out ?
If they fix it up later on who cares ! When they get back up on thier feet again it will be that family to decide where to go from there .
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  #145  
Old 06-14-2009
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sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice
Tiara,
There's an elderly couple in your neighborhood who've been working for the Cuban government for some time now and it seems the federal government has decided that it is unlikely that they'll be needing their boat in the future. You might keep an eye peeled for a quick sale to raise cash for legal expenses, if the US Marshall's have not already plastered it in a seizure. If so, keep an eye on those government auctions in the area.
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  #146  
Old 06-14-2009
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Wow,
Talk about off topic ! now we're back to lamenting the merits of a survey.
I've already expressed my feelings about "surveys and surverors" in other posts.
On one hand I hear posters claiming experience and knowledge of boats and sailing , then in the same paragraph stating they wouldn't buy a boat w/out a survey ??? So which is it?
Anyone can become a surveyor if they are willing to pay the organizations that represent them (schools,online,study courses).
What makes the "surveyor" all knowing? isn't he/she just another person offering a service for money? Are there any warranties w/ surveys ?
If your too inept to determine the condition of the equipment w/out a paid surveyor, how can you know if the information provided is accurate or relevent when you recieve the survey ?? AND if you are capable of determining the information is accurate, then what did you need a surveyor for to begin with ??
I know the banks ,insurance companies and brokers all tout the merits of surveyors. Somehow I'm just not sold on them.
I guess if your completely inept,inexperienced, and to busy/lazy to educate yourself about boats they may fill a need.
Or, if your just fulfilling the requirements for a loan or insurance policy that will require a survey.
Other than that, I question whether I really want to share the waterways with you, if you're not willing/capable of determining the condition of the boat and equipment you'll be utilizing, what else are you missing ? navigation and rules of the road skills? (basic marine courtesy,i.e.wake,noise,safety)
Reference is made here time and again questioning the judgement of living aboard a potentially unsafe vessel w/ children. I would have to add that if you feel unable to determine the condition of a vessel and equipment your considering aquisition/operation of, and you need to hire someone to tell you if it's worthwhile, then you may be more or at least as much of a risk/danger to yourself, your passengers and others on the water as the former situation, maybe even more so !
I hear all the time from the boat owners tied to the dock (for years upon years) about their vast knowledge and experience ( I always inquire when the last time they-"took her out for a sail")..
Yea, I anchor, I sail (not motor,motorsail) . Of course, I keep the diesel operational, I use it to move in and out of marinas when seeking fuel,water,pumpout. But primarilly I sail.
"If the wind's not blowin' I probably ain't goin' "
I have to add that managing a west marine, or a marina (not a DIY yard that offers dockage and not repair maint. haulout services,etc), does not equate to any vast knowledge of boating , only a knowledge of buss. management .
Even holding certificates from USCG or sailing schools only guarantee one thing- you (or somebody) paid alot of money to get a piece of paper from the organization.
Experience is going, having been, and doing. Really doing , not motoring from marina to marina and paying (outragious fees) to tie up everynight and plug in. Experience is living it , it's ongoing, it's fluent , it's continually learning different inlet's,anchorages,regulations,conditions, and exchanging information with others doing the same (not dock dogs).
Most of the Dock dwellers I speak w/ seem unsure and afraid of what's over the horizon on one hand ( seeking instead the false security of being tied to a dock), but are often the first to adamently council and warn me off of any far ranging travels.
I thank god I quit listening to them years ago. Had I not , I would probably havenever gone and discovered for myself the reality of it, with my own eyes,hands, and with my family (and pets).
As per the cost issues, I never spent more than $1-2000 for a boat, never paid a surveyor and have sailed from St.pete, Fl. to lake Erie and back (yes, I motored the NYS canal system) with family and pets aboard.
It would seem to me that if you got a boat for nothing and wisely,frugally invested money in it's repair, you would , as a result have a worthwhile vessel.
I don't think boat ownership is ever an investment that pays any returns other than the experience,knowledge and pleasure gained from it's use. Never heard anyone remark about boat ownership as a form of investment, usually the opposite, with rare exception.
Rather than seek to obtain council here in this forum I would suggest a trip to the library to read actual accounts from those with verifiable life experiences. Rather than anonymous, faceless internet personas making often unverified claims of vast experience while tied to a dock in a marina between monthly daysails.
Nothing emboldens me more than when someone tells me what I cannot do.
After all somebody had to be first to do it, who surveyed that boat?
Who certified the first surveyor?
How was the first "Captain" ordained?
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  #147  
Old 06-14-2009
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Everybody is ignorant of something. Nobody knows everything, but it sure sounds like you are the right guy to step in, and help this family. With your vast knowledge you could step right up, and actually save this family from further descent down the slippery slope.

Nobody in life starts out running. We all start just laying there, and eventually crawling, our first step, walking, falling down, and getting up, etc. etc.. I am fairly sure this includes you too?....i2f...dock dweller
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  #148  
Old 06-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
Wow,
Talk about off topic ! now we're back to lamenting the merits of a survey.
I've already expressed my feelings about "surveys and surverors" in other posts.
On one hand I hear posters claiming experience and knowledge of boats and sailing , then in the same paragraph stating they wouldn't buy a boat w/out a survey ??? So which is it?
Anyone can become a surveyor if they are willing to pay the organizations that represent them (schools,online,study courses).
What makes the "surveyor" all knowing? isn't he/she just another person offering a service for money? Are there any warranties w/ surveys ?
If your too inept to determine the condition of the equipment w/out a paid surveyor, how can you know if the information provided is accurate or relevent when you recieve the survey ?? AND if you are capable of determining the information is accurate, then what did you need a surveyor for to begin with ??
I know the banks ,insurance companies and brokers all tout the merits of surveyors. Somehow I'm just not sold on them.
I guess if your completely inept,inexperienced, and to busy/lazy to educate yourself about boats they may fill a need.
Or, if your just fulfilling the requirements for a loan or insurance policy that will require a survey.
Other than that, I question whether I really want to share the waterways with you, if you're not willing/capable of determining the condition of the boat and equipment you'll be utilizing, what else are you missing ? navigation and rules of the road skills? (basic marine courtesy,i.e.wake,noise,safety)
Reference is made here time and again questioning the judgement of living aboard a potentially unsafe vessel w/ children. I would have to add that if you feel unable to determine the condition of a vessel and equipment your considering aquisition/operation of, and you need to hire someone to tell you if it's worthwhile, then you may be more or at least as much of a risk/danger to yourself, your passengers and others on the water as the former situation, maybe even more so !
I hear all the time from the boat owners tied to the dock (for years upon years) about their vast knowledge and experience ( I always inquire when the last time they-"took her out for a sail")..
Yea, I anchor, I sail (not motor,motorsail) . Of course, I keep the diesel operational, I use it to move in and out of marinas when seeking fuel,water,pumpout. But primarilly I sail.
"If the wind's not blowin' I probably ain't goin' "
I have to add that managing a west marine, or a marina (not a DIY yard that offers dockage and not repair maint. haulout services,etc), does not equate to any vast knowledge of boating , only a knowledge of buss. management .
Even holding certificates from USCG or sailing schools only guarantee one thing- you (or somebody) paid alot of money to get a piece of paper from the organization.
Experience is going, having been, and doing. Really doing , not motoring from marina to marina and paying (outragious fees) to tie up everynight and plug in. Experience is living it , it's ongoing, it's fluent , it's continually learning different inlet's,anchorages,regulations,conditions, and exchanging information with others doing the same (not dock dogs).
Most of the Dock dwellers I speak w/ seem unsure and afraid of what's over the horizon on one hand ( seeking instead the false security of being tied to a dock), but are often the first to adamently council and warn me off of any far ranging travels.
I thank god I quit listening to them years ago. Had I not , I would probably havenever gone and discovered for myself the reality of it, with my own eyes,hands, and with my family (and pets).
As per the cost issues, I never spent more than $1-2000 for a boat, never paid a surveyor and have sailed from St.pete, Fl. to lake Erie and back (yes, I motored the NYS canal system) with family and pets aboard.
It would seem to me that if you got a boat for nothing and wisely,frugally invested money in it's repair, you would , as a result have a worthwhile vessel.
I don't think boat ownership is ever an investment that pays any returns other than the experience,knowledge and pleasure gained from it's use. Never heard anyone remark about boat ownership as a form of investment, usually the opposite, with rare exception.
Rather than seek to obtain council here in this forum I would suggest a trip to the library to read actual accounts from those with verifiable life experiences. Rather than anonymous, faceless internet personas making often unverified claims of vast experience while tied to a dock in a marina between monthly daysails.
Nothing emboldens me more than when someone tells me what I cannot do.
After all somebody had to be first to do it, who surveyed that boat?
Who certified the first surveyor?
How was the first "Captain" ordained?
Yes!!!!!
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  #149  
Old 06-14-2009
sv Mary T Pearson P35
 
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Smile Free boat on craigslist

FREE US Navy Whaler
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  #150  
Old 06-14-2009
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The transom on Tiaras boat must have given out and she perished.
Or she was a fake, fony, fraud.
Or so what.
No reply to the generous help ofered by the fine people at SN.
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